February 17, 1999

[Partial transcript]

Dr. Keyes: What's THE GOOD NEWS TODAY?

Well, we have a report that (blip on the tape here, missed the first sentence, he is speaking Judge Susan Weber Wright contemplating a contempt of court charge against Mr. Clinton) . . . that's good news. Maybe she is being roused from her incompetent slumbers. But it does seem to me, however, that if she was gonna take action and if action was warranted, that action should have been taken in a way that would have been timely, given that no matter what action a judge or anybody else wishes to take against a sitting President, it may fall ineffectively as long as that person sits in office.

That's why impeachment is there, so that if you do in fact have reason to move against an individual who is in the presidency, the Congress can take action to make sure that they're called to account if they have indeed, if there is indeed sufficient evidence to show that they've been guilty of wrongdoing. So she wakes up now, after having given rather incompetent judgments and so forth and so on, in order to do what? Probably just in order to try to recover something of a reputation that certainly has been sullied by her past judgments.

But anyway, I suppose that's good news as far as it goes. I also came across a report from the AP wire, a political writer, that I want to share with y'all again. It says, "One of the political rights intellectual firebrands is questioning whether conservatives should drop out of American culture and essentially declare decades of moral struggle unwinable. 'I no longer believe that there is a moral majority,' Paul Weyrich wrote in a letter to several hundred fellow conservative leaders. 'I do not believe that a majority of Americans actually share our values.' Weyrich, head of the Free Congress Foundation in Washington says President Clinton's acquittal in the impeachment trial has brought him to the point of wondering whether conservatives should continue trying to influence politics. 'We need some sort of quarantine,' he wrote in the letter obtained by the Associated Press."

I have to state, because you all know I love and respect Paul Weyrich and always will, but I think he is absolutely wrong about this. Absolutely wrong. And I would simply point once again to that nostrum that was applied to intellectual life that said that you should not identify the truth with the point at which you get tired of thinking about something. And I think the same can be said of truth about politics or any other situation requiring action.

We shouldn't identify the truth with the point at which we get tired of acting, because in human life there are many reasons why we might get tired of acting, including the fact that I think it is appointed for all of us once to die, and that means we're headed down that road, and as we get closer to the end of our line we can get weary. We can look back on many decades of struggle and we can get kinda tired of the ups and downs. And at that point we can sometimes forget that standing there behind us are fresh generations coming along, ready to take up the banner of God's work, 'cause He's never without allies. And so we shouldn't be disheartened because we are at a point where we might be getting a little weary. We should instead take heart from the fact that there stand with us and behind us and coming along, new generations who will still stand up and raise the banner of truth.

I was reminded of this last night. I was at Fairmount State College in West Virginia. And there were a couple hundred people assembled there, including students and so forth and so on, and this was an assortment of folks. You had black folks and white folks and young folks and older folks, and all of them as I talked about the Clinton scandals, its moral implications, the requirements of our liberty, the need to return to a sense of discipline and self-government, they were applauding and afterwards coming up and thanking me and so forth and so on. One of the things that can be an antidote to discouragement in these times is to actually get out there amongst the people, talk to them. Let them talk to you. Bathe in the decent heart of the American grass roots instead of being taken in by the lies and propaganda of the media. And I know first-hand what liars they are, that's why I continually call your attention to it.

I know for a fact that the media in this country lies and lies and lies. They repress the truth, they repress facts that are not consistent with the depraved impressions that they wish to create in order to foster their agenda. I know it first-hand. For instance, I'm back and forth to Iowa a lot these days. And you'll read about all kinds of things going on with the President, you'll read about Elizabeth Dole going up to New Hampshire and getting polite applause from a bunch of hackneyed political types who came together for her. Yeah, and so forth and so on. But you won't hear about the hundreds who have been coming to gatherings that we have been having in Iowa. You won't hear about that. They don't report that. See, I know for a fact that they lie.

A lady came up to me after an event I was at the other day, and she said, "You know what you say about the media lying, I know it's true, because I attended such and such a regional Republican conference (I think it was a midwest regional Republican conference), and when you came to speak everybody was on their feet and there was raucous applause, and you got the best response of anybody who came that whole conference, and I was there for the whole thing. And you know, Alan, they didn't even mention your name." I said, ah, not surprised at all, 'cause they're liars.

And even when they tell you a little truth, they only do it in order to increase credibility so they can lie to you with greater effect. We know this to be true, we understand it, so why do we allow ourselves to be disheartened by the lies, the phony polls, the propaganda campaign? Don't let it happen. Don't let it happen. One of the key things that is done in this country today is to try to convince people of decent heart that they're alone, and it's useless and they can't do this or that.

I was just talking with a caller about this very thing. When people like Michael Medved, so-called conservatives, come forward and say, "Don't vote your heart. Don't vote for principle. All these conservative moralists, they can't win. Vote for somebody who can win"--think about it, my friends. The purpose of that argument is to make sure that people of decent heart who are thoroughly imbued with the sense that this nation needs to return to its moral foundations--if we follow that kind of advice, we'll never know our true strength, you realize that? So they put out their phony propaganda polls, they convince everybody of this or that, and then they send out people like Medved to make sure that the real strength of moral conservatives is never realized because these people who have won a little favor with conservatives by telling us, you know he told us five truths about Hollywood, and now for the sake of those five truths about Hollywood we're supposed to let him get away with this huge, big lie about what we ought to be doing with our vote and our heart. A huge big lie that will keep us divided and fragmented, that will take our strength and lend it to people who don't support the right things for this country.

Why should we do it? Why are we letting ourselves be taken in by these people? Don't let it happen. There's only one way that we will ever know our strength, and that is to follow what we know in our heart to be right and in faith to cast our vote and lend our strength to those people who stand unequivocally for what we believe to be right and good for this country. And then, then we'll see how strong we really are, and not until then. If we give in to these counselors of expediency and so forth and so on, if we give in to the propaganda that pushes us toward despair and surrender, then we will throw away what I believe to be the reality of the strength of America's decent heart and purpose.

As I often tell folks, we are not going to get politicians who stand for the truth no matter what, who stand with integrity no matter what, who vote for principle no matter what, unless we are willing to be voters and citizens who vote for truth, integrity, and principle no matter what.

And when we're ready to do that, then we will have a true test of the strength of America's moral heart and decency, and not until then. So I think we need to be real careful right now, 'cause this is a time quite calculated to have everybody giving in to despair, "oh, Bill Clinton won." Bill Clinton didn't win anything. The fact that he was able to get a bunch of corrupt people in the Senate on whom he had a lot of blackmail information, or whatever, to vote to perjure themselves and violate the oath that they took in order to support him, the fact that the Democrats are such a corrupt gaggle these days, that doesn't tell you anything about America's true heart. It tells you something about their corruption--because, Paul is quoted saying in this letter, "If there really were a moral majority out there, Bill Clinton would have been driven out of office months ago." That didn't depend on any moral majority. It didn't depend on the people. It depended in the end on the courage of the Republican leadership, and in the Senate of the United States they obviously didn't have much, and it depended on the willingness of leaders in the Democrat Party to resist the criminal element in their party, and they didn't have that strength. And so at the end of the day, things went the way they went.

But what tells us more about the American people, what tells me more, is the response that I got on this program and around the country. People calling in and writing, and the fact that the people who took action overwhelmingly said, "remove this guy," ought to tell us something about the truth and the true heart of America. And we can't give up on that heart. We must never give up on that heart, because on the day that we do, there won't be any real America left. And I am not prepared to surrender that hope which I mean to pass on to my children, so help me God.

Back after this with more of America's Wake-Up Call.

(commercial break)

Dr. Keyes: Welcome back to America's Wake-Up Call. Let's get back to the phones, say hi to a caller from St. Paul, Minnesota.

Caller: Good morning. I'll try to be as brief as I can. I wanted to make a statement about the press, or the media in general as being the fourth branch of government, and how we really don't have a check and balance there. And that movie, The Exorcist, when you saw start mixing the two Catholic priests that were gonna exorcise this young girl, the elder one, he says, beware of the lie that is mixed with the truth, that is even more deceptive than the pure lie.

Dr. Keyes: That's right.

Caller: And also, that you can't even watch--you know when you talk about the media, watching TV at night or even watching something you think is as neutral as the Superbowl, you're being indoctrinated to a certain cultural propaganda. And I'll let you . . .

Dr. Keyes: Well, I think that this has been recognized for the longest time. I'm always put in mind of that wonderful line from Macbeth in Shakespeare, where Banquo says to Macbeth after they've met with the witches, something along the lines of "sometimes the powers of darkness to win us to our harm do tell us truths, lure us with honest trifles to betray us in deepest consequence." Beautiful, isn't it?

Caller: Yes.

Dr. Keyes: And absolutely the truth. And I think that that element is what's going on in the media today. Oh, they'll sprinkle it in with truths and this and that, little pieces of information, "Oh, that's useful, this is useful, learn about your health, learn about this, here's the latest diet, here's the latest craze," and in the midst of all of that to lure us in and get us involved, they then tell us huge lies. I mean not just small lies, but big lies, including lies that will betray us in terms of our moral discipline, lies that will betray us in terms of our confidence in our own judgment, lies that will betray us ultimately as Michael Medved is doing with the lies about whether we should support principle, that will keep us even from knowing our own strength and achieving those things we believe to best and right for the country.

So we have to be very careful, very careful to understand and to have discernment and in the end that discernment has to be governed and guided by a spirit of truth that I think goes beyond just what we can bring to bear with our rational faculties. Has to be a ground that I believe in, in faith in the end that the truth will prevail.

Let's go back to the phones, a caller from Binghamton, New York. Welcome to The Alan Keyes Show.

Caller: Good morning Alan. I feel like I should say mega-dittos or something to you, and I'd just like to congratulate you.

Dr. Keyes: We actually encourage amen's on this program. (chuckling)

Caller: Oh, amen brother! Well, I think to make the comment, ask the question, what makes Mrs. Clinton feel like she's welcome in New York? I recently moved upstate from Long Island, and Long Island believe it or not is fairly conservative. They do have a few friends out in the Hamptons, the movie business folk, but from where I'm sitting New York State does not look like a place that would welcome her. What's going on here?

Dr. Keyes: I'm not sure, I think that they're counting on name recognition, they're counting on the fact that you've got the big media centers in New York that would promote her, they're probably counting on New York City and support that they think that she would get there. Also of course counting on the belief, I guess, that we are now in an era where the Senate is no longer considered in any way really to have a relationship to the interests of the states from which people come. 'Cause what claim does Hillary Clinton have to represent New York?

Caller: We agree with that, we're livid up here. I've noticed something else. I have two teenage sons and I feel that these liberal politicians that are getting away with this ludicrous behavior are in trouble. My sons are absolutely beside themselves in anger over what is happening with our country and so are their friends. And they'll be voting age soon. I think this may have a reverse effect from what is expected.

Dr. Keyes: Well I have to say that I have been having experiences now as I go around speaking on college campuses that confirm this, because during the course of the 80's when I used to visit college campuses, I got used to a lot of hostility, right? And a lot of antipathy toward the conservative viewpoint. Now when I go, as at Fairmount last night, I find that there are a lot of young people who are listening carefully, who are asking questions that are informational and who are coming from a very sympathetic point of view in terms of the things that I have to say. And that being the case, it's part of the reason that I was saying when I was commenting on Paul Weyrich's statement that we shouldn't mistake our own fatigue, whatever it might be, for the general situation, because there are new generations coming along, and those new generations have light and life and fire in them and we can't afford to give up on that hope, you know what I mean? Because it really exists, it's really there.

Caller: Oh absolutely Alan. I'd like to congratulate you for the job you're doing, and also on your fine website. I think people should make that available to themselves. It's very educational and I hope you have a good day.

Dr. Keyes: Well thank you, thank you for your call. And I thank you too for the reminder about The Alan Keyes Show website: www.alankeyes.com. Pay a visit. It repays the effort. You can also tell friends about it, because folks in parts of the country where they haven't yet obtained access by radio or TV to The Alan Keyes Show can listen in by visiting the website. It's one of the areas, including talkspot.com and americasvoice.com where you can get The Alan Keyes Show. And on americasvoice.com you can see the video from 10 to 12 as well, so stop by The Alan Keyes Show website. You'll have links to these and other interesting sites on the web. Conservative information, conservative views, alternative information to the degenerate media that's out there lying and lying, and only telling truth in order to lie. No, you need something that is unmixed with that kind of motive, and we try to help you out in finding those links on the web, as well as information about the kinds of things that I'm doing around the country. So thank you for that reminder of The Alan Keyes Show website, www.alankeyes.com.

Let's go to a caller in Chesapeake, Virginia. Welcome to The Alan Keyes Show.

Caller: Hi, Mr. Keyes. I am wondering about when the politicians said that the Constitution worked. They just emphasized, both sides, that the Constitution worked. I can't understand how it worked for the people if it allowed 50-plus politicians to basically lie when there was overwhelming evidence, so that he would not be removed. So how did the Constitution work?

Dr. Keyes: Well see, you're basing that statement on substance, and they're basing their statements on nothing at all. To them, we went through the motions, therefore the Constitution worked. To you, they acted without integrity, therefore the Constitution didn't work. And I think that you're right. You're the one who's got the better argument, because at the end of the day the Constitution is just a scrap of paper and it relies on the integrity, character, and substance of the individuals who occupy those offices. Our system of government can be no better than they are, and when they pretend that it is, that is a pretense, that's all it is.

(commercial break)

Dr. Keyes: Welcome back, I'm Alan Keyes. This is America's Wake-Up Call. Our number 1-800-520-1234, by fax 703-516-7212. Back to the phones. Let's go to a caller in Pensacola, Florida. Welcome to The Alan Keyes Show.

Caller: Yes, I think you're causing, the religious right is causing splits in the Republican Party. I take a look at George W. Bush there and how he got 10% of the black vote. Taking up positions against great heroes like Arlen Specter and Olympia Snowe and so forth is causing a schism. Some are leaving the party, and I think a lot of us would just like to have you people out of our party.

Dr. Keyes: No, you're the ones who are gonna leave, sir, 'cause we're the ones who have been accounting for victory for the last twenty years, and I intend to fight tooth and nail to make sure that that continues. In the days when we had these squishy soft liberals leading the Republican Party, before the Reagan Era began, Republicans could barely win at the grass roots. Couldn't win the Congress, couldn't show their face, in fact. And we have been developing grass roots strength on the strength of bringing into politics American's of moral heart and decency and concern, committed to conservatism across the board.

That has been the source of the Republican Party's strength and victory since Ronald Reagan won in 1980. As we move away from that, we have been once again tasting of defeat. We actually achieved a great victory in '94 on the strength of the participation of what you call the religious right, and the support of such people for the Republican Party. Wouldn't have gotten it otherwise. And in 1996 and 1998 when such people stayed home and turned away from us because of the squishy soft positions and record that we were amassing, we lost. And that's the way it's gonna be. So you can go on talking all you want, but Arlen Specter and Olympia Snowe and these people do not represent any future for the Republican Party. They represent disaster.

Caller: Well you're not a compassionate conservative then. Thank you very much.

Dr. Keyes: (laughing) I am compassionate. I have compassion on America. I have better sense than to believe it's gonna be any good for America or our children to let liberals who kill babies in the womb triumph over this country. What kind of compassion is that?

Let's go to a caller in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Welcome to The Alan Keyes Show.

Caller: Hi, thank you Alan. I just wanted to say I think voting your conscience is very important, and I agree with the comment that you said on voting your conscience. The last election I was a delegate for the Republican Party and I did not vote for Bob Dole because of the convention in California. He had a spokespeople Susan Molinari and Christy Whitman who are pro-abortion feminists, sending mixed messages. When I cast my ballot I did write in my own candidate, Alan Keyes. I had never felt so good about my vote and I feel that if people vote their conscience that means being involved in the primaries, being delegates and casting a vote of conscience in the person who stands for your morals, we will make some headway in this country and not going with media and everything else.

Dr. Keyes: Well, I think you're right. And what you say about the choices at the Dole Convention for platform spokesman, it really amazed me and it's strange how politicians think. You take the choice of the Congressman, well Congresswoman Molinari, right?

Caller: Right.

Dr. Keyes: Somebody had told the Dole people that, "Oh, we have great opportunities to get the Catholic vote," right? "We need to appeal to Catholics." Now these folks, this is how politicians think. They said okay let's find a Catholic and we can put a Catholic on the podium. So who did they choose? They chose a pro-abortion Catholic feminist type, right? And this, does this represent the opportunity for Republicans among Catholics? NO!

Caller: It sure doesn't represent me. I'm a Catholic, I'm a Roman Catholic.

Dr. Keyes: The opportunity among Catholics, among Republicans was among pro-life Catholics, people who are appalled at the deep commitment of the Democrats to the slaughter of innocent children in the womb. So you take a pro-abortion Republican woman feminist, and you put it in front of the Catholic voters, you're not going to attract Catholic support with that if you're a Republican. Matter of fact, you're gonna outrage pro-life Catholics, and they're gonna ask whether you have the sense you were born with. And that's, I know, how a lot of Catholics I know responded to that absurd error. So what you say is exactly true, unfortunately. I wish that some of these politicians had better sense than they have displayed in the past.

(commercial break)

Dr. Keyes: Welcome back. I'm Alan Keyes. Back to the phones, a caller from Brookfield, Wisconsin. Welcome to The Alan Keyes Show.

Caller: Hello Alan. I was at the March For Life Rally, and at that rally your brave friend Bob Dornan made a comment that I felt was very, very effective and very important. He pointed a finger of blame at the bishops and he did say aside from a group of very brave ones, and pointed out the brave bishops on the stage there. But he pointed a finger of blame on the bishops for much of the moral decline of our nation. He was talking specifically of the abortion issue, but then other issues.

Dr. Keyes: I wasn't at the march 'cause I was out doing Right to Life events in Hawaii, and speaking. But I understand that Nellie Gray got upset at that. Did she?

Caller: And the reaction of the crowd was upset with Nellie, and I think the world of Nellie. But then later in her comments she said the bishops are here and there were many in the crowd that yelled, "not all of them." And that is the absolute truth. I live in an archdiocese in Wisconsin, and in our archdiocese, our Bishop Weekland will not publicly take a stand against abortion and the other moral conservative issues. In his lack of not holding politicians in the area accountable--we have a politician, Tom Barrett, that goes to church on Sunday, is written up in Archdiocesan Paper as a model for families, but this man has voted pro-abortion consistently. He voted in favor of the President on Friday. His moral convictions in the political realm are absolutely in direct opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church.

Dr. Keyes: This is something I haven't understood, because the Pope has said that it is actually a moral obligation of Catholic people who are active in politics to support the pro-life position. He's made that very clear. And that is, as I see it, that is a statement about faith and morals, right?

Caller: Absolutely.

Dr. Keyes: And such statements about faith and morals are binding upon Catholic individuals as a matter of discipline within the Catholic Church. Now that then would seem to be the case that Catholic politicians who then do not fulfill and acquit themselves of that moral duty, but instead take pro-abortion positions, are doing something that's directly contrary to their clear responsibilities of faith. Am I wrong about this?

Caller: Oh, not at all, and Tom Barrett has been shown that statement by many, many, many of his constituents. Now, our bishop though, and I do agree with Bob Dornan, most of the bishops throughout the country are not enforcing these teachings that the Pope has, the statement that the Pope has made. And the Pope is absolutely right on this. Now you've got, then you have them, people considering Susan Molinari as a practicing Catholic. Well these people should be publicly and privately held accountable by their bishops, and I do feel that it is very--this is a reason why there were so many Catholics there, Catholic politicians on Friday directly perjuring themselves. And on the other conservatives' votes that have happened where they have been, you know should have by conscience voted in a moral way and have not.

Dr. Keyes: And the sad truth is, as I have said about these Republicans who voted to support the President, it was not an accident that the five who voted to support the President and perjured themselves on both articles, right, those five are the staunch, pro-abortion Republicans in the Senate.

Caller: This is not the first time this has happened, and when you said that last week, I said to my husband this is what I've been saying, whether you want to say it or not, it comes down to abortion and the allegiance on the abortion issue.

Dr. Keyes: And see this is the sad thing, because that means that these issues can't be divided. In point of fact, the corruption of conscience that abortion represents then corrupts conscience when moral judgment is required on other issues.

Caller: And our bishops need to be out there helping the Catholics of our nation developing this conscience, and they are not.

Dr. Keyes: But do you think that they--because I think what's clear in the way that the Pope has in Evangelium Vitae and other places stated the significance of the abortion issue, he sees the connection. He doesn't see abortion in isolation. He sees it in the context of the corruption of moral heart and conscience. That's why he speaks of the culture of death. It's not an isolated episode, it is part of a culture of the human personality that corrupts and debases conscience and moral judgment and takes us away from their true foundations. And that being the case, if you really understand that to be the nature of the abortion issue, then you realize that a wrong position on that issue is going to affect other judgments that have to be made with respect to family obligations, with respect to responsibility within the marriage context, responsible sexuality, and so forth and so on. True or false?

Caller: Absolutely true. There is one bishop I have to say that stands out in Wisconsin, Bishop Burke of the LaCrosse Diocese, who stands out. Now that man people flock to for information. We've got Bishop Brushkiewicz, people flock to him for guidance, but then there are several other cardinals and bishops. But they are in the minority numbers-wise. You are right on the money, and I wish the bishops would tune into your show.

Dr. Keyes: I do have to say though, that I saw the remarks that were included in the statement that the bishops made within the last year on the issue of pro-life. It wasn't as strong as it might have been, but at least it was a step in the right direction, don't you think so?

Caller: Oh yes, it was, but um, that took a lot. In action, I saw that paper, I read it and I'm distributing it. But it's the lay-people of the church that are distributing this. This is something I think that the other bishops that will support corrupt politicians, they went along with this, but they don't believe it in their hearts.

Dr. Keyes: Well you know, there is a practical explanation at least in part for this that I know folks don't wanna see, but which I bring up because I think we have to think about it seriously. To the extent that the Catholic Church has allowed itself to become an administrative agent for the government's welfare programs, right?

Caller: Oh absolutely, and the Catholic Hospitals and healthcare system.

Dr. Keyes: Then it depends on the government largesse, and it depends on that sort of worldly connection, and I think that that has a chilling effect on the willingness to stand forward on a lot of these issues and speak against the politicians who are protecting the government lifeline into these welfare agencies and programs. It's something that needs to be thought on, because it's the corrupting effect of that government-dominated welfare nexus.

(commercial break)

Dr. Keyes: Welcome back. Let's go to a caller in Stanwood, Washington.

Caller: God bless you Alan, I'm on my way to Ash Wednesday Mass, and as I'm walking out the door I wanted you to know that one of my biggest concerns is listening to Gary Bauer, whom I support, and then I hear that Pat Buchanan is going to jump in the race. And the thing that broke my heart the most last time was, gosh, we had great ones, we had Alan Keyes, Pat Buchanan, Dornan, and that split the pro-life vote. And I'll tell you what the pro-aborts on both sides of the fence are just drooling, they're salivating, they're so happy when we get more than one. I know the purpose of the primary, but what happens is you're going for the nomination, and what they want is they just are gloating that they just want so many good, pro-life, pro-family guys to split the pro-life vote, and that will completely nullify us. So I'm really concerned about it, I've seen it in the past happen, and I've heard numerous calls after this last pathetic November 3d election call and say please have a Council of Trent, please coalesce, please everybody get behind one person.

Dr. Keyes: Behind who? See, this is the problem I have, okay? Because let's take Paul Weyrich right? Paul was trying to get everybody behind John Ashcroft, okay?

Caller: Right.

Dr. Keyes: If everybody had stood behind John Ashcroft, we would have made a big mistake, because Ashcroft is a reasonably good fellow, but when push came to shove, he went to the Detroit Economic Club and acted like we should put the moral issues on the back burner. So, we would have jumped and we would have gone for this one, and we would have been proven wrong. So there are other respects in which we need to know about the strengths and weaknesses of the people who might stand forward. How are we supposed to know that, except under the test of actual campaign endeavors? So if you jump too soon, you're gonna jump for the wrong person quite possibly, and then we'll be in trouble, won't we?

Caller: Well, I guess then we all really have to scrutinize and use the spirit of discernment between now and the primaries, to sift out who would be the best pro-life.

Dr. Keyes: Exactly, exactly what I believe needs to be done in terms of seeing what's happening. I don't think it's a bad thing for several people to be out there. They're waking up a lot of folks, bringing people into the process who might not otherwise look. But as people are looking at that process, at this early stage I think they ought to be asking who's going to be the most effective in terms of carrying that standard. And I don't see any harm in having a phase where we're going through that period of discernment and choice.

(commercial break)

Dr. Keyes: I'm Alan Keyes, welcome back to America's Wake-Up Call. Now we are awaiting the arrival here on the program of Larry Klayman. Talked to you yesterday about having Larry come on and talk to us about a number of things, including the strange coincidence that Arlen Specter's wife appointed by President Clinton to a Commission on the Arts, and then Arlen Specter turning out to be one of those folks who just couldn't control himself and had to perjure himself and violate his oath in support of this perjured President. And so we'll be asking what Larry makes of that coincidence. He's also going to be with, if all things hold good, Dolly Kyle Browning. You've heard that name. She's somebody who has filed suit against Bill Clinton because she believes that he needs to be held accountable that she says was brought to bear on her to keep her quiet about a relationship that she and the President had. So we'll be talking to him about those things and the lawsuit that he is involved with. He'll be arriving with us momentarily, in the meanwhile, let us go to the phones and say hi to a caller in London, Kentucky.

Caller: I'd just like to comment on the partial-birth abortion bill that Clinton vetoed twice. Then he comes out saying he's gonna stop violence on children. I think that's just really hypocritical. He needs to start with the babies.

Dr. Keyes: I think you're absolutely right. Apparently though, somebody like Bill Clinton doesn't see the connection between the support for abortion, even in its most heinous form, the infanticide of partial-birth abortion--he doesn't see that by supporting that, by promoting that practice, by encouraging the women of this country to believe that's their right, he's hardening America's heart. And a hardened heart is a heart that then is going to be more inclined to abuse, you see what I'm saying? Because if you look upon your children not as a trust from Almighty God, if you see your children in terms of your convenience and your whim and your satisfaction, and your passions, and so forth and so on, if in other words they're kind of a selfish possession the way a car or a toy is a possession--you understand what I'm saying? If that's the way you look at children, then you are not going to be under the kind of compassionate, God-fearing discipline that is required to respect the life and welfare of that child at all times, are you?

Caller: That's exactly right.

Dr. Keyes: But see, Bill Clinton doesn't see that. He doesn't understand the connection between abortion and the hardness of heart that ultimately leads to the abuse of children. And all this pretense, we're compassionate and so forth and so on, you can't be compassionate and support abortion.

Caller: I wonder how many people really know what partial-birth abortion really is? If they knew, it's horrible.

Dr. Keyes: If the media has its way--see, 'cause that's one of those things they don't want to explore, do they? They won't talk about it, don't want to show the pictures and stuff. They'll show all kinds of obscenities and talk about all kinds of pornography and have Jerry Springer and his ilk going into all kinds of perversions, but when it comes to the truth about partial-birth abortions, they suddenly become very fastidious. "We can't show that to anybody." See? This is the way they are, they hide the truth. That's why I say these are liars. The media people, such liars.

Caller: They are hypocrites. And then Byrd saying they'd go on and let the country heal, don't he know corruption don't heal?

Dr. Keyes: I guess he doesn't realize that.

Caller: This is corruption.

Dr. Keyes: Ask yourself, where's the common sense? Where's the common sense?

Caller: Don't have it, they don't have it.

Dr. Keyes: They don't have it. Instead of healing they're rubbing the salt of their own lack of integrity in the wound of corruption that Bill Clinton represents.

Caller: Right. And I think the Republicans should take a strong stand on this issue, I mean just really come out against it, and not just say it one time, but repeat it 'til people really hear.

Dr. Keyes: Unfortunately, you have so many Republicans who are scared, defensive, they wait until they're attacked before they even say anything about a lot of these issues. They act like people who don't believe in the importance of these issues which represent the moral challenge to our lives. That's what they act like. They don't really care. They think money's important and budgets are important and materialism is important, but when it comes down to the moral fiber and fabric and foundations of the country, a lot of them act as if they don't really believe that's important. They'll pay lip service to it, right, to try to pick up some votes from people who think it's important, but in their hearts they don't believe it, it's not high on their agenda.

Caller: Yeah, they try to say what they think people wants to hear, but they really, if they really knew what people wanted to hear, this stuff, there's nobody wants that to go on. If they do there's something wrong with them.

Dr. Keyes: I believe that you represent a lot of good-hearted people around the country, and I act in the faith that y'all exist, that you are anxious to respond to the truth that's presented with integrity, and that we shouldn't give up on the effort to come together and make a difference in terms of what we can do acting together in our public life and politics. So I'm gonna keep at it, I hope everybody will. Thank you for your call, really appreciate it.

Let's go to a caller in, actually I'm having a hard time reading that abbreviation. Hello?

Caller: Rutherfordton, North Carolina.

Dr. Keyes: Ah! Rutherfordton, North Carolina. Thank you for that help, really appreciate it. Welcome to the show.

Caller: Thank you. What I wanted to bring up is I started noticing, I watch C-Span a lot, I watch a lot of the talk shows, I watch you all the time, and the callers that are calling in, I started noticing it in the spring about radical right-wing Christians, "You have to get rid of the radical right, they're the destruction of the Republican Party, they're gonna destroy our country." Some people get so impassioned that they actually scream that they're nothing but Nazis. I follow it, and it gets worse, and worse, and worse, and I notice more callers on your show are doing the same thing--and I know exactly what started it, where it's coming from. It's Norman Lear's organization, People for the American Way. They've got a commercial out right now that shows exactly what I just said. Anybody with Christian values are terrible, they're no good. And I think the Republican Party ought to try to nip this in the bud. I think they ought to take a stand and get out and say something about this.

Dr. Keyes: Well, sad to say, you notice how a lot of the people who are socialists and on the left-wing and the liberals and the Democrats, they're always talking about tolerance, right, and they're always inveighing against bigotry and racism and hate crimes and all this. Unhappily, there is one kind of bigotry that they have a lot of tolerance for, anti-Christian bigotry. Have you noticed that?

Caller: Oh yes, definitely. It's increasing, it's getting more and more.

Dr. Keyes: And in fact, the President, the present occupant of the White House himself was there, I think at the Prayer Breakfast of all places, as I recall, telling us that Nazism was a form of Christianity. Did you hear about that? I mean talk about, talk about somebody coming into a situation and then opening his mouth in such a way as to validate a lot of the wicked bigotry that is being spread around out there. Do you think he calculated that? Do you think that was his intention? 'Cause I do. But here we have it, and I think you're absolutely right to point it out. One of the things that I always remind people of though is that a lot of people try to pretend that Christian influence is gonna do such horrible things, and lead to such terrible intolerance and what not. This country was under Christian influence for what, the first hundred and fifty-odd years of its existence, right?

Caller: Yes.

Dr. Keyes: And during that time we had tolerance, we had people coming of all backgrounds and persuasions who felt comfortable here, practicing their religion and pursuing their faith, there was great diversity. One of the things that characterized American culture because we respected the existence of God was that we took seriously God's endowment of each individual with dignity and rights, and we respect that. Isn't that right?

Caller: Yes, and you've always said that what does it say in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, our rights are granted to us by our Creator.

Dr. Keyes: That's right. Because America believes in God, we actually respect each person's freedom to believe or not. But that belief in God is fundamental to that respect for basic human rights, and so the people who try to pretend that somehow the belief in God is going to destroy rights, that's absolutely wrong. It is from the belief in God that we get the premise that each human being has rights, and because of that belief in God and our respect and reverence for the authority of God, we are going to respect the God-given rights and dignity of each human being.

When we turn away from that premise and go down the road of abortion and all these things that deny God's existence and authority, then we put ourselves back in the might makes right situation, in the situation where we believe that human dignity is simply a matter of whim and convenience and choice, and are willing to abrogate our respect for basic human dignity. And that's where the danger arises, not from Christian faith. But the opposite is often spread abroad these days, and we just have to keep the truth in mind and be confident of it and move forward without shame in our articulation of it. That's what I think. Thank you, appreciate your call.

We're gonna be back right after these words here on America's Wake-Up Call. Coming right up, Larry Klayman and Dolly Kyle Browning, here on America's Wake-Up Call.

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Dr. Keyes: Welcome back to America's Wake-Up Call. I have the great pleasure of having with me right now one of the great champions of Constitutionalism, law, the integrity of our legal and political system in this country, somebody who has been, through Judicial Watch, his organization, one of the thorns in the side of Bill Clinton's wickedness, pushing for truth on behalf of the American people and on behalf of individuals who have along the way been the victims of the machinery of political thuggery and intimidation and character assassination that Clinton has mobilized on behalf of his policies and in defense of his wrong-doing. And somebody I have the greatest respect for because he has stood in spite of all the winds that blow in the opposite direction, for integrity and for the search for truth in this whole process over the course of several years that swirls about the Clinton Administration and sadly the criminal element that it brings into American political life. It's Larry Klayman.

And I was put in mind, Larry, first of all in terms of asking you whether you'd have some time to come on the program, what brought it to my mind and we can deal with first, and then we'll get to other things.

Larry Klayman: Sure.

Dr. Keyes: It came across my desk yesterday, a little squibble about Arlen Specter. And I have been commenting to folks in my audience that I thought it was no coincidence that all five of the people who voted to support this perjured President and who, in my opinion, perjured themselves by violating the integrity of the oath they took, all five of the Republican Senators who voted with him on both articles were staunch pro-abortion types, including Arlen Specter. And then what should cross my desk but a little squibble that came courtesy of Judicial Watch, pointing to the fact that Arlen Specter's wife had received an appointment from the Clinton Administration. What do you make of that Larry?

Mr. Klayman: Well, the appointment, Alan, occurred in May of last year, at the height of the Lewinsky scandal. Joan Specter, the Senator's wife, was given a post on the National Council of the Arts--and ask yourself the question, if you're Arlen Specter and you're having to vote on whether to convict the President, can you vote against somebody who gave your wife a very high and valued position? And the answer is obviously no, and although you can imagine that there was never a statement, "If I get this post for my wife, I will vote the other way." It's exactly the same situation that occurred in the Lewinsky case. The favors were given, the gifts were provided, and Specter did what he had to do.

Dr. Keyes: Now it's interesting to me, because it seems to me that given the scandal that was swirling about and the obvious role that the Senate might have in it, and so forth and so on, am I just way out in left field somewhere or would it have been appropriate to turn down and ask your spouse to turn down any such appointments from the Clinton Administration? I just think that the appearance, itself, is unsavory.

Mr. Klayman: Well, you know I'll tell you, from a personal experience, I was a young lawyer and just starting in a law firm. And the senior partner said to me, "Larry, you're doing a good job. I'd like to help you buy a condominium." I was only 30 years old. And I said, "No, David, I can't take that," because I knew what he was trying to do at the time. I would have to give him my sole allegiance in that law firm from that point forward. And yes, it should have been turned down, and when the President offers something like that you know what he wants, and when you accept it you have to do exactly what it is he's expecting. So there's no ifs, ands or buts with this, and Specter should have disassociated himself from this attempted bribe.

Dr. Keyes: You know this is very disturbing, but I guess it's of a piece with what I think we watched throughout this whole process. One of the things that most disturbs me about it is that we saw the mobilization of a machinery of political thuggery, character assassination, intimidation, seemed to have to do with witnesses. Had to do with people in the Congress. Had to do with people in the Senate. It introduces an unparalleled element of coercion and thuggery into American politics. And what disturbs me is if it was mobilized to defend his crimes, why do we assume it won't continue to be mobilized to pursue his ambitions?

Mr. Klayman: Well it will be. And I'm here with Dolly Kyle Browning today. Here's somebody who's trying to come forward, like yourself, and tell the truth about this administration. She's been threatened, vilified. Feminists have said, "Well, it doesn't matter that she's been threatened as long as we get what we want in terms of abortion rights," if you want to call them that. And this is what goes on. It's a tremendous bazaar with people handing out goodies, making threats--and it's a billion, billion dollar enterprise this White House is operating. Just yesterday on the Rivera Live Show, Rivera refers to Dolly as "delusional." And it's no accident that yet on another show through another Democrat consultant they're doing the same thing, calling her the same thing. This is obviously a coordinated effort which deals with bribery, with threats and coercion and extortion.

Dr. Keyes: Well, I think that that's pretty clear, and we've seen a pattern of it that has been out there, and yet the media won't talk about it, in terms of the effort to get the stalking label attached to Monica Lewinsky when they thought she was a threat, in terms of Elizabeth Ward Gracen talking about threats that she was subject to and on and on.

Dolly Kyle Browning, welcome to The Alan Keyes Show.

Dolly Kyle Browning: Thank you. It's great to be here.

Dr. Keyes: Well, thank you for being with us today, and coming forward to share the experience that you have had. We are looking at a situation where it seems to me there's a lot to suggest that there has been a machinery of intimidation surrounding these folks for many years. What has been your experience in that regard? I mean, you have brought a lawsuit--what is at the heart of it?

Ms. Browning: The first threat that was made to me was in 1992. You see, I've had a long term relationship, I HAD a long term relationship with Billy Clinton, whom I met when I was 11 and he was 12. We subsequently had a sexual affair, which was wrong, I have repented of it. I've changed my life. And he admitted to me that he had had sex with hundreds of women. In '92 when he was running for President, the Gennifer Flowers story had just come out, and that same tabloid approached me. I called Billy to warn him about that, I wasn't cooperating with them, I didn't even return their phone calls. But instead of calling me back, he had someone else from his campaign, someone who had been with him campaigning since 1974, someone who was a trusted inside member to call me and say, "If you cooperate with the media, we will destroy you."

That person happened to be my own brother, and I preface it by saying about his long history because it was not just a family thing, it was he was an insider in the Clinton campaign. And that was the first threat, "we will destroy you." There were other threats from other people, and in 1994 when I was trying and starting to market my novel, which was loosely autobiographical as most first novels are, Bruce Lindsey cut a deal with me and the deal was in market my book I wouldn't tell the truth about Billy Clinton and he wouldn't tell any lies about me. That deal was in place, it was corroborated by people from the Washington Post, by CNN, by other respected publications. All of them chose not to run the story, by the way, and then I was vilified in the New Yorker Magazine, and I testified truthfully in the Jones case, at which time the deal was off, because you see, I told the truth under oath. And therefore they started more of the lies about me, and that's what we're dealing with. And that's why these hundreds of women are afraid to come forward, absolutely afraid. They're terrified because they see what happens.

Dr. Keyes: Yeah, yeah. Larry when we get back could you tell us a little bit about the details of the lawsuit and where that stands?

Mr. Klayman: Be happy to, Alan.

Dr. Keyes: We'll take a look at that here on The Alan Keyes Show right after these words. Back with more of Larry Klayman and Dolly Kyle Browning.

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Dr. Keyes: I'm Alan Keyes, welcome back to America's Wake-Up Call. We're talking with Larry Klayman of Judicial Watch and our special guest Dolly Kyle Browning, about the fact that Dolly Kyle Browning represents a real-life instance of the mobilization of the machinery of intimidation and character assassination that we've seen so much in evidence in the course of the last several months and years of the Clinton Administration, and which I believe Larry was decisive, I hate to say it, in the outcome that we just saw last Friday. 'Cause I, and a lot of people look at the Republican side, I think that's all well good and I think there was a certain amount of effect there. But I think that the fact that the Democrats held firm around this corrupt and perjured President had a lot to do with the fact that what he may have on the Republicans doesn't hold a candle to what he probably has on his fellow Democrats.

Mr. Klayman: Well no question. If you look at the list that we got in our Filegate lawsuit, James Carville is one of the people whose FBI files they obtained. They didn't trust him. Good reason not to trust him, Alan. But they were gathering information on Democrats, and it is a reign of terror and that's exactly why I believe those Senators went in closed session so they could talk "candidly" and decide how they were going to get out of this before Larry Flynt, Carville, and the other smear-meisters did their numbers. So it is both Democrat and Republican. But another thing. The President said that the appropriate forum, and all of his sycophant consultants that went on TV every night that have large contracts with this administration, said that impeachment wasn't the right forum. It should be the courts, it should be the justice system. Well, Dolly is giving the President his wish. And of course now that we're in the courts, they're saying that she's delusional, she doesn't deserve to have her right in court, let's relitigate the Jones decision. Well that's not gonna work either, because the President just last Friday said, "I was at fault, I apologize," however disingenuous and insincere, and obviously the Jones court, the Supreme Court had it right, they never envisioned that a President would EVER commit perjury or obstruct justice under oath.

Dr. Keyes: Well, let me ask you a question. In terms of this suit that has been brought on behalf of Dolly Kyle Browning, explain to the audience a little bit what is involved in that lawsuit and what you hope the impact will be.

Mr. Klayman: Well, Dolly has brought a case against not just the President, but also people in and around the President, including Bruce Lindsey. And in this lawsuit she sets forth, particularly in Count Six, that's a racketeering claim, she is stating that a criminal enterprise is being run out of the White House by the President and his agents. And the purpose is to deny her her property rights, which was to publish a book, which she has a right to do under the First Amendment, and also to maintain the hold on the Office of the Presidency. And consequently this is the first racketeering, RICO case against this President and White House, and she's standing in the shoes of not just herself, but the other women who have been threatened, Linda Tripp, Kathleen Willey, Juanita Broadrick, you name it, that's part of this lawsuit.

Dr. Keyes: Now, it was in the paper today in the Washington Times that it looks like a ruling may be near in the lawsuit. What is that ruling about from the federal judge?

Mr. Klayman: Well, characteristically, when you file a complaint, lawyers never answer the complaint, they try to have it dismissed. Those motions are pending, they've been pending now for four months, and we had a hearing with the judge yesterday, very brief, and he said he'd rule quickly. I asked for oral argument, and we're confident that we're gonna get a good decision and now proceed with Dolly's case. So Dolly is going to get into the areas that the Congress wouldn't get into, the threats to the women.

Dr. Keyes: Dolly?

Ms. Browning: Yes?

Dr. Keyes: It seems to me, looking at a lot of the circumstance, we've seen people under pressure and intimidation, my sense is that a lot of folks including a lot of people in our political elite gave into that, didn't have the guts to withstand it. It would seem to me to require a lot of courage to do what you're doing. Aren't you afraid of their continued efforts at retaliation?

Ms. Browning: I certainly am not unaware of them, and I would be absolutely petrified if I didn't know that He who is in me is greater than he who is in the world. But I am careful. I am careful for my family, my friends are very concerned about me, and interestingly the number one question we get on emails at my website, is do you fear for your life? Are you afraid? Well that is exactly what they intended by all of these threats, and that's exactly why it's difficult to have hundreds of women come forth. They are scared, they're definitely scared.

Dr. Keyes: Well, we'll be right back. We're gonna continue our conversation with Larry Klayman and Dolly Kyle Browning. We'll be taking your calls and comments for them here on the program right after these words, here on America's Wake-Up Call.

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Dr. Keyes: I'm Alan Keyes and we're on today on America's Wake-Up Call with Larry Klayman who is the head of Judicial Watch. Now, one account I have read here actually insults you, Larry, I have to tell you. Because it calls you the Conservatives' American Civil Liberties Union. Not a comparison I would relish, myself. But I think that you are far superior to the ACLU, you have integrity.

Mr. Klayman: Thank you.

Dr. Keyes: But in any case, we also have as our special guest Dolly Kyle Browning who, sadly, has been one of the objects and targets of the machinery of political thuggery and intimidation that is mobilized by the Clinton forces on behalf of this perjured President. Let's go to the phones, a caller in Chicago, Illinois.

Caller: First of all, hi, good morning. Alan you're a treasure, and Larry I've been long a supporter of yours.

Mr. Klayman: Thank you.

Caller: I fear that Clinton is using and destroying our Justice Department. This is mafia don tactics, right or wrong?

Mr. Klayman: Correct, absolutely correct. We have two lawsuits against Janet Reno, we're preparing an ethical complaint to file with her Office of Professional Responsibility, detailing a pattern of conduct in our cases of having her lawyers know about suppressed documents, letting people come forward with false evidence. She's directly involved in this and she should have been removed. You know, talk about Arlen Specter who goes on TV every week and says he's gonna do something along with Orrin Hatch, they've never done anything. And part of the reason, I believe, is because she's intimidated them, as well. So somebody has got to put an end to the way the Justice Department has been politicized, and now they're talking about doing away with the Independent Counsel. What will be left other than Judicial Watch and public interest groups? I'm flattered, but we do need a Justice Department as well.

Dr. Keyes: Thank you so much, appreciate your call. Let's go to a caller in Kilgore, Texas. Welcome to The Alan Keyes Show.

Caller: Hi folks. I wanted to ask Dolly if she felt that she had been targeted by President Clinton or the White House, and personally threatened?

Ms. Browning: Yes, absolutely, I have. And as you know, we folks who live in Texas don't take kindly to that sort of thing. I invite you to go to my website. Look at the amended complaint which gives you the entire story of what's happened. There is so much that we can't cover it in a small amount of time, but it is mind-boggling that the President of the United States would bring the power of his office and everything that he can bring to bear on one private citizen. He did it to Paula Jones. He's done it to Kathleen Willey, he's done it to Linda Tripp. He's doing it to me. And look for it to get worse, because they are not going to sit idly by, in spite of the faked repentance and the feigned remorse. The man is sorry he got caught, but he's continuing to do the same things. So until something changes, nothing's changed.

Dr. Keyes: Now Larry, one of the things that keeps running across my mind as I listen to this is a question that I think has been on the minds of a lot of folks as they watched this impeachment trial and so forth. There was an obstruction of justice charge, an obstruction of justice charge that involved the notion of the mobilization of just this kind of machinery of criminal conduct. Why was it that these kinds of facts and episodes, which would seem entirely relevant to a judgment about that obstruction charge, didn't surface during the trial?

Mr. Klayman: Excellent question Alan, and I've given it a lot of thought, because you're right. You know it's one thing to talk about academic inaccuracies in testimony. It's one thing to talk about gifts that were provided, but they never put it together so the American people could understand it. And the way you understand it is to talk about what happened to Dolly and the other women, the threats. The Republicans never really wanted when they first started this thing, with the exception of Bob Barr and a few others, to remove the President. They think it's great having him there to the year 2000, that it's gonna weaken the Democratic Party. And that's why they always kept the impeachment proceedings limited, even within the scope of Lewinsky they kept it very narrow, and it was destined to fail from the very first day it started. And I've never said anything else, I don't think you've said anything else, and it was quite obvious that the thing eventually was gonna go down the tubes. So that's where we are, and Dolly's now doing the best she can in the courts to get some justice.

Dr. Keyes: The sad thing is, though, I think they entirely miscalculated about the political impact that this would have, because right now they're in the worst of both worlds. They've got the Clinton bigots and Democrats hating them, and they've got a lot of Republicans who deeply feel that they have betrayed the truth. And this is the worst of both worlds. I wish these guys would stop calculating and just act with some integrity sometimes.

Mr. Klayman: You're right, they can take all the polls they want Alan, and I'm not advocating any result in politics, we don't get involved in that. But the fact is that they have lost their conservative base, and I don't think that they have a prayer in the year 2000 without that base.

Dr. Keyes: I believe that sincerely. Let's go to a caller in Norwalk, California. Welcome to The Alan Keyes Show.

Caller: Yes, good morning Alan. And Larry, good to see you there.

Mr. Klayman: Thank you.

Caller: Yesterday on George Putnam's show, Larry Nichols brought to our attention that there's a Senate Judiciary Investigation involving Trent Lott and some scam government land matters, and this is indicative that this is why he was compromised and the whole thing was compromised for this vote. Are you aware of this?

Mr. Klayman: I wasn't aware of it, but we do know and there was a report last Friday that the White House is still gathering files, FBI files, IRS files, other government files on everyone. And this has been the case from day one. And ask yourself the question, Hillary Clinton who was the mastermind of Filegate, and Linda Tripp put that to rest in her deposition, look on our website at judicialwatch.org. She's gonna run for the Senate in New York? Well, look out opponents, 'cause they've got files on all these people. So this is the kind of thing obviously which has kept them in office. It has worked before, and they're obviously doing it now.

Dr. Keyes: And using it to kind of now pursue political ambitions instead of just defend criminal misdemeanors.

Mr. Klayman: That's right.

Dr. Keyes: And this is a problem. Dolly Kyle Browning, as we move forward here, a lot of questions have been raised over the course of time about Bill Clinton's attitude toward women. You've got a lot of these feminists who try to pretend that his support for abortion and other things somehow makes him a big idol to be worshipped and so forth. You're somebody who has known Bill Clinton over the years, how does one account for two things--one, what seems to be the willingness of some women to support him, and two, what seems to be his utterly abusive attitude toward women?

Ms. Browning: Alan, you have to look at the issue of addiction and codependency, and the kinds of things that women do to prostitute themselves either to their husbands or other people for their own agendas. You are not, again, it's about integrity. These people could have absolutely supported me and all of the other women who have been abused, but you have a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde and the women are choosing to focus on Dr. Jekyll.

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Dr. Keyes: We've come to that part of the program I call THE LAST WORD. Quickly let's go to a caller from Atlanta, Georgia. Welcome.

Caller: I believe that Kathleen Willey went on national TV to save her life, after Jim McDougal's deposition could not be used because he died. Do you have any comment on that?

Dr. Keyes: Larry? Dolly?

Ms. Browning: I think that Kathleen Willey did exactly the right thing, and of course she was instantly trashed. Somehow they came up with these letters that were missing when they were asked to be produced as documents. I know there are hundreds of women out there, I would love to talk to Kathleen Willey and these other women. I urge them look at Leviticus, chapter five, verse one. If you have seen or heard anything you have a moral obligation to come forward. Contact me at [my website]. Let me know. I will protect you as long as possible. If more people would come out, this would be a lot easier for me, I'd appreciate the help, really.

Dr. Keyes: You know that puts me in mind of something Larry, we might think of trying to put it together. We could have a "Victims of Bill Clinton" support group, so that people could get together and so forth. I wonder if RFK stadium would be available? (chuckling)

Ms. Browning: I already have that.

Mr. Klayman: You're right, but you know when they talk about one hundred women they make fun of it, Alan, but over his cycle of the last three decades that's not many women, given his behavior and how outrageous it's been.

Ms. Browning: That's less than one a month. I mean come on, that's nothing for him.

Dr. Keyes: Sad to say, smile though we will about certain aspects of this, the truth is that we have among the victims of Bill Clinton right now this nation, its moral conscience, the integrity of its institutions, and I believe our hope for the future if we don't get back on track.

Ms. Browning: Absolutely.

Mr. Klayman: You're absolutely right, Alan.

Dr. Keyes: And that's something that I want to thank you both for what you're doing. The stand you're taking, the courage you're showing, your unwillingness to stand back in the face of this intimidation, you are setting an example that I hope is going to be followed by Americans, cause we're going to need that kind of courage, I fear, in the months ahead.

Mr. Klayman: And we need you, Alan. Thank you for making the American people understand what this is about. If we didn't have people who can explain it as well as you do, we'd be in a lot more serious trouble.

Dr. Keyes: Well, we shall continue here on this program, as I know you will, and with the help and the grace of God, as you say, Dolly, I think that we will be able to persevere. He can heal our wounds, He can change our hearts, and I believe He can heal the wound and restore the decent heart of America. And we live in that faith, we live in that faith on America's Wake-Up Call and we will continue to act in it here on America's Wake-Up Call. I want to thank you for being with us today. We'll be back bright and lively tomorrow. In the meanwhile, God be with you.