Radio interview
Thor Tolo, KGNW 820AM, Seattle, WA
February 7, 2008
THOR TOLO, HOST: The beauty of a presidential candidate who has "winner" written all over him — somebody like a Ronald Reagan is or was — when you ask that guy a question, you got an answer. Good versus evil. You know. The ones in the white cape versus the ones in the black. You know. The United States of America versus the old Soviet Union. We must defeat the evil. We must "bring down that wall, Mr. Gorbachev." That's been 20 years or so.
And yet that candor that we love in politicians or that we ought to admire is so sorely lacking nowadays. What used to be the author of the Straight-talk Express is now a compromising conservative named John McCain. We even have hints of flip-flopping from a true Evangelical candidate like Mike Huckabee, whose wife Janet will appear in our studios tomorrow, is scheduled at 4:30 — and as we hope, she'll be able to dial up Mike during the course of our half hour interview between 4:30 and 5:00. Now, that is tomorrow. It is that hope to have the Huckabee candidacy succeed to the extent that even though he has no real mathematical shot in terms of delegates to be the Republican nominee. We hopefully can get to a point in this campaign, even if it's on the left with Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, that when we hear a question asked of the candidates, we are getting without a doubt to be a genuinely honest answer.
The same is true of Dr. Alan Keyes, who has always been labeled a long-shot candidate, who has, in fact, run for president of these United States, someone who went up against the Barack Obama political machine in 2004 for a U.S. Senate seat in the state of Illinois. And, of course, as we all know by now, Senator Obama won the race and is within a whisker of the presidency, if all falls into place over the next two or three months. It is a grueling process for the Democrats on the road to Denver. It is just as grueling on the road to Minneapolis where the Republican convention will be staged later this summer.
It appears, though that the muddled nature of the Republican race has become pretty crystal clear now that this guy has stepped aside:
[clip of Mitt Romney's concession speech]
MITT ROMNEY: Today, we are a nation at war, and Barack and Hillary have made their intentions clear regarding Iraq and the War on Terror. They would retreat, declare defeat, and the consequence of that would be devastating. It would mean attacks on America. Watch from save havens, it would make Afghanistan under the Taliban look like child's play. About this I have no doubt.
Now, I disagree with Senator McCain on a number of issues, as you know. [cheers, boos] But I agree with him on doing whatever it takes to be successful in Iraq and finding and executing Osama Bin Laden. [cheers]
TOLO: Those moments of sincerity have become glaringly lacking, I believe, in the Romney candidacy for president. He, of course, announcing that he is suspending his campaign, and in essence dropping out of the race for the oval office. And it is the same Mitt Romney, who despite his Mormonism, has, in fact, postured himself, fairly, I believe, as the most conservative of the candidates, but it's been the flip-flopping that has haunted him — going from pro-choice to pro-life. Once defending the right of a man to marry another man or a woman to marry another woman, and now saying, hey, he is a great defender of traditional marriage.
This is the same Mitt Romney that our next guest, Dr. Alan Keyes, believes single-handedly instituted same-sex marriage while governor of Massachusetts. Alan Keyes the Republican presidential candidate, who lobbied against that state's adoption of same-sex marriage when it was imminent 3 ½ years ago, when most people were unaware of the way Massachusetts had come about adopting same-sex marriage. The man who once served Ronald Reagan administration, as a diplomat, believes that the state's supreme judicial court in Massachusetts forced it to happen, for that is still today the perception of what happened, but as Alan Keyes is about to remind us, that is absolutely, positively a false perception.
Joining us for the first time on the Thor Tolo Show is Dr. Alan Keyes from the Heartland. Dr. Keyes, an honor to have you on this afternoon's show.
ALAN KEYES: Thank you. Glad to be with you. Appreciate it.
TOLO: Indeed, why does this perception persist, sir, that, in fact, it was the Supreme Judicial court of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and not then-Governor Mitt Romney, almost single-handedly responsible for instituting same-sex marriage.
KEYES: Well, I think it persists only because people don't look at what the court actually said in its decision.
TOLO: What did they say?
KEYES: Because they acknowledged that they did not have the power to change the laws of Massachusetts. The judiciary cannot do that. They expressed an opinion about gay marriage, and that was all they did. Because it was all that they could do under the constitution of Massachusetts, which makes it clear — as do, in fact, all our states and the federal constitution, as well — that the judiciary has no power to make laws. They can have whatever opinion they like about what the law should be, but it's up to the representatives of the people to make the law, and if they do not act, there is no change in the law.
And they said this in their own decision, that the legislature was the only one that could change the law. And therefore, the legislature could or could not act. The judiciary can't force the legislature to act, because the legislature is independent from the judiciary, and so the opinion of the judiciary does not have the force of law, did not have the force of law in Massachusetts. Nothing changed.
And then, Mitt Romney, without any basis in the law — because the legislature did not change it, or the constitution, because the court could not change it, having no authority to do so — then ordered the justices of the peace in Massachusetts to perform gay marriage, even though that order itself was both unconstitutional and illegal.
TOLO: Hmm
KEYES: But as I understand it, he had made a promise to the Log Cabin Republicans, and he was just determined, regardless, to keep it, and to make sure they were placated, even as he now tells us, or did tell us, that he's always had these pro-life convictions, but the oath he made to uphold the Constitution of the United States and to uphold the rights, unalienable rights, of our people, that doesn't matter to him. Because he was so interested in becoming governor and fulfilling his ambition that he was willing to sign into law bills that paid for abortion and to tell the people of Massachusetts that he was in favor of a woman's right to choose, and would defend that right, and all of this, even as babies were dying.
So, I think, sadly, a lot of people saw through the Romney candidacy — the reality that it was not about principle, it was not about issues. It was about his ambition and his willingness to do whatever it took to promote that ambition. So, if you have to lie to the people of Massachusetts to become governor, you do it, and then you turn around and you tell people that you've been pro-life all along. But unfortunately, those people are going to look at you and say, "Well, you were lying then, how can we be sure you're telling the truth now." And I think that makes a serious problem.
TOLO: In the same spirit that Michael Moore has said that he could not, in good conscience, vote for Hillary Clinton, at least during the primary process, because of her continually voting to support funding to support the troops, and her vote to allow Bush to take us to war, in the first place. In that same vein, could you, in good conscience, have voted for or publicly supported Mitt Romney if he had become the Republican nominee.
KEYES: Well, no. I've made it very clear, I've made it very clear with respect to Rudy Giuliani, with respect to Mitt Romney, and others, that I'm not buying into this whole phony business that's been going on. I think that these candidates were reinventing themselves when what they said contradicted their records. The same is happening with John McCain. There's not a single constituency of true conservatives that doesn't have one of John McCain's knives stickin' out of our backs.
TOLO: Wow!
KEYES: Where he betrayed conservatism in the name of bipartisanship, but actually in the name of trying to serve his own presidential ambition. And that includes the McCain-Feingold bill, a direct assault on freedom of speech, on the ability of conservative grassroots organizations to raise money, on their ability to communicate with the electorate. He has made a determined effort to shut down true democratic, self-government in this country, so that people can't organize, can't raise money, can't associate, and can't communicate about the records of their representatives. And that kind of assault is a deadly blow against the possibility of self-government and constitutionalism in America.
And we're just supposed to forget about it now, and listen to his words that his pollsters tell him he's got to say to please and placate people, but I don't think people are that stupid. I really don't. The same is true of the border security issue. He fought tooth and nail against the Minutemen and others who wanted to see the barriers put up and border assured. Instead, he promoted an amnesty bill that would have devastated the sovereignty of the American people and would have produced demographic changes that confirm the invasion that, in effect, has taken place on our nation's territory and soil. And now he wants us to believe, "Oh, I'm in favor of strong border security, because I know you people won't vote for me if you know the truth." Are we that stupid? Have we really become that gullible as a people that we let these politicians change their words and will ignore their actual work and record in the process? I hope not, and don't think so.
Other conservatives fought hard to get good judicial nominees set up there, and this guy, looking to refurbish or build up his reputation for bipartisanship, torpedoed their efforts to get good conservative justices through and joined hands with the Teddy Kennedys of the world to defeat the effort.
This is not soon to be forgotten, by people who understand what it takes, the sacrifices that have been involved in trying to elect good solid conservative majorities in the Senate and the House, only to see them betrayed because of the actions of people like John McCain.
So, I find it entirely implausible that good hearted and good conscienced conservatives are suddenly going to forget that whole record, which in point of fact means that he's been moving in a direction indistinguishable from Hillary Clinton. The only difference will be the label.
TOLO: When we return, we're going to "A" draw Dr. Alan Keyes out a little bit, so we're a little more clear to his opinions. [laughter] And we'll also explain why not only could I in not in good faith, caucus for Mitt Romney this Saturday, had he remained in the race, there's no way I could caucus for John McCain either. And so I shant.
What does Laura Ingraham have to say about John McCain? You'll hear her in one minute.
[break]
. . . and your phone calls, too, for Dr. Alan Keyes at 800-955-8200. Still to come will be our first stop when we return. Laura Ingraham is not a bad stop if you're looking for political venom.
[clip]
LAURA INGRAHAM: You know, I don't think any of us in this room is going to expect a Ronald Reagan is going to walk through the door. That's, you know, no one can embody all of Ronald Reagan. It's impossible. He was a man unique to his time and his challenges.
But we do want, and I think deserve, a candidate who is proud to be a conservative and who embodies conservative ideals. Is that too much to ask? [applause]
TOLO: Okay then.
ANNOUNCER: You're listening to the Thor Tolo Show on 820AM, KGNW. Once again here's Thor.
TOLO: Before we rejoin our guest Alan Keyes, we rejoin Laura Ingraham, still ranting.
[clip]
INGRAHAM: Here's another little nugget for you. I don't think it's enough to say that, you know, you were a foot soldier in the Reagan Revolution. I think the question is: What have you been doing for conservatism lately? [cheers]
TOLO: That's called a "shot over the bow," and it's not possible to miss that shot fired by arch-conservative, Laura Ingraham. We have another arch-conservative, like Ann Colter, claiming she'll vote for Hillary Clinton if she is the nominee of the Democratic Party, and McCain gets coronated in Minneapolis. Would you go that far, Dr. Alan Keyes?
KEYES: I'll just make it very clear. I'm not going to support John McCain, and that's just simply that. And I think a lot of conservatives feel very deeply about that . . .
[overtalk]
TOLO: Which makes my question, which makes my question . . .
KEYES: . . . if we just stop, just stop allowing these people to lie their way into office, and then express shock and surprise when they turn out to be exactly what we know they are from their record, from their activities, from their pronouncements.
Any fool who votes for John McCain and believes in conservatives' ideas and values deserves exactly what they get, and it's time we stop doing it.
But unlike Laura Ingraham and [unintelligible], this is not our alternative. We can nominate a real conservative. Somebody who has fought for, stood for, and been in the forefront of all of the causes we hold dear, for the conservative conscience, limited government, fiscal responsibility, a strong America in the fight against terror, but also along our borders.
Unlike John McCain, I have stood foursquare where conservatives are standing for the sake of America, and I've done it consistently with no exceptions throughout my career. And I think that if we're looking for reality in terms of the kind of commitment that's needed to lead this nation properly, we need experience in national security and foreign policy, such as I have, but we also need a deep knowledge of the Constitution and how to defend it, such as I have. And we need true and proven commitment. And also finally, you need an ability to articulate all those things to the American people, and no one — not in the Republican Party or the conservative movement — claims that there's anyone better at that than Alan Keyes.
TOLO: But you'll forgive the fairness of my question then. If McCain is — please humor the hypothetical — is to become the nominee, and it's Hillary on the left, for whom will you vote? Or will you write in your own name?
KEYES: Well, my answer to that question is very simple. If the two parties start walking down this same road of big government conservatism, betrayal of our sovereignty, destruction of our constitutional self-government — Americans know how to build new cars, we know how to build new houses, we know how to build all kinds of new business enterprises — I bet we still know how to build new political parties.
TOLO: Ahhh . . . the shot over his own bow there on maybe getting that third party, which is entirely possible with the billions that Michael Bloomberg has in New York.
KEYES: Well, I don't know about money. What I'm thinking of is the fact that the majority of people in this country want border security. They don't want amnesty. Both Huckabee and McCain stood, in their careers, for the amnesty approach. Mike Huckabee wanted to extend college scholarships and other benefits to illegal aliens. He even would compensate for slavery somehow in the way we treated illegal immigrants, rather than understanding and committing ourselves to what has, in fact, been a generous immigration policy. But no policy makes any sense if you're not enforcing border security, which our elites have betrayed us on, and if you're not enforcing the laws you then put on the books. It's all worthless — it's all just words — if it's not properly enforced by a commitment to defend the sovereignty of the American people. And neither Huckabee nor McCain cared anything about this commitment until they read some polls that told them how angry people are over the betrayal of American sovereignty that has taken place in the last 15 years and more. We are angry. We're angry at the prospect that they have allowed a demographic invasion that shifts control of this country out of the hands of its people for the sake of a greedy elite that's serving their own selfish purposes. People aren't stupid. They understand what's happened. And they want it stopped, and so do I.
TOLO: Good news. We have 20 more minutes with our featured guest, Dr. Alan Keyes. Here's Craig in Steilacoom, our first stop. Followed by a caller from Lake Forest Park, Illinois, who we thank for listening online, as we audio stream live at KGNW.com.
Craig, good afternoon. And you are live with Republican candidate Alan Keyes.
CRAIG: Thank goodness. And thank you, Thor, for having him on — and Dr. Keyes, I want to just first say that I have for quite some time been a great admirer of yours. There was one brief shining moment a few years ago when you were running for president when you led in our district, because I was the first one to cast a vote at the polls.
KEYES: [chuckle]
CRAIG: And I also want to say that this outrage that you've been expressing reflects my sentiments precisely, and I'm very much with you.
KEYES: Thank you.
CRAIG: And I'm very frustrated with the Republican Party for those very reasons that you've been bringing up. But I hope to be caucusing Saturday, and so of all the forerunners, uh . . . [chuckle], in the party, the one I thought I might possibly be able to vote for, would be Huckabee, I was very pleasantly surprised when I found out only by opening my pamphlet that you are also a candidate, and I would much rather vote for you. I wonder if you could continue to outline the differences that you have with Huckabee on important issues.
KEYES: Well, I think the most important is a fundamental one. And I'll put it this way. Many months ago, I started getting calls from some of my old colleagues in the Reagan administration, and they were asking me to attend fundraisers for Rudy Giuliani. And I felt a certain kind of moral indignation at this. I've spent my whole life fighting for pro-life principles, in support of traditional marriage, fighting to respect the simple moral premise that our rights come from God and must be exercised with respect for the authority of God, and to support somebody like that would be betraying everything I believe in and also abandoning my allegiance to my faith in God. And I told them in the front, "No. Never gonna happen. Won't do this." And if the party goes down that road, it goes down that road without Alan Keyes.
Then on the other hand, people started getting in touch with me some months ago, and saying that our big hope is Mike Huckabee, the governor of Arkansas, he's pro-life. And then I started looking at his record, and it turns out that he's a liberal on everything else — expanding the size of government in Arkansas; raising the taxes in Arkansas by a net of a half a billion dollars; expanding, as I said, this amnesty mentality, rather than defending our borders and our sovereignty; defending the big government take over that actually was represented by a lot of the Bush policies on education, rather than championing school choice and the kinds of things that will put control back in the hands of parents and local communities, where it belongs on education. These are the approaches of what they call the "big government conservatives." That's a term somebody invented, in order to cover up the reality that these people are liberals. And though he is good in his record on pro-life, do I have to sell-out every other element of conservatism? Do I have to adopt approaches that are, in fact, inconsistent with the concept of liberty I defend by defending the innocent life of the child — a concept that sees us as responsible before God, and therefore there's a necessity for responsibility, moral character, all of which big government approaches destroy? And I wrote a book about this — "Master of the Dream: The Strength and Betrayal of Black America," arguing cogently, I believe, that these big socialist approaches destroyed the moral fiber of the black community, undermined the work incentive, undermined the family. This is a bad idea. Socialism and liberty are incompatible, and I think Mike Huckabee simply in his career doesn't realize it.
TOLO: Forgive me for not knowing off-hand, Dr. Keyes. Are we able in Washington as Republicans to caucus for you? Can we caucus for anybody?
KEYES: Yes, yes, yes
TOLO: It doesn't have to be a limited number of likely candidates or likely nominees . . . I can caucus for my wife, if I wanted.
KEYES: Well, we have worked hard to understand it, and we've been dealing with people in Washington state. We have supporters there.
TOLO: Great.
KEYES: And we have encouraged folks to communicate. There is a conservative choice. We don't have to give up now.
TOLO: I may caucus for you. In getting back to Romney where we started this conversation — and we'll wind it up in a few minutes — the fact of the matter is, even when Romney had it right, which was labeling McCain, correctly, as an author of amnesty, even then Romney wimped out on national television and back pedaled saying, "I didn't really call it amnesty." And then they rolled a Romney ad and in which he accurately called it amnesty. Even when Romney was right, he wimped out.
KEYES: Well, see the sad thing is does your rightness come from a desire to please people, or from a desire to take the right stand for what's true and good for America?
TOLO: That's it! The later being Ronald Reagan. That's right that's absolutely right! Okay. We have one more segment with Alan Keyes. What a phenomenal guest!
You can support, you can support if you're liken what you're hearin' so far. You can support the campaign of our featured guest, Alan Keyes, at AlanKeyes.com. Keyes spelled K-E-Y-E-S, and of course, Alan, A-L-A-N. Just go to AlanKeyes.com. Again the spelling, K-E-Y-E-S. That's AlanKeyes.com.
Our next stop for the long shot Republican candidate is in Lake Forest Park, Illinois. Marcus, good afternoon. You're on AM820, KGNW.
MARCUS: Dr. Keyes, are you Catholic?
KEYES: Yes. I am.
MARCUS: You are very articulate, and you speak to issues that I think the Evangelical Christian community supports. You're a very intelligent man. Why would you be in the Catholic Church when it is foundationally has so many, I'd say, doctrinal errors? When you're able to articulate from a political stance errors in thinking, why are you in the Catholic Church and not a Protestant?
TOLO: Marcus's question's as pointed as your opinions, Dr. Keyes. Have at it.
KEYES: Well, I'm a Catholic, because I believe that the Catholic Church's teachings correspond with true . . . both realities of the scripture and of the Catholic Church, the combined wisdom of a great many people over the centuries that have been brought to bear on a scriptural basis. And I know there's a scriptural misunderstanding about that, because some folks think that the Catholic Church departs somehow from reverence for the scriptures. But that is not true.
And I am somebody who believes in the scripture, who takes it very seriously, who has accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, and I believe that that faith, rightly understood and with Catholicism rightly understood, is exactly what it means to be a practicing Roman Catholic Christian. And that is what I am, and I'm always glad to talk to people about these matters, because I believe they are deeply and critically important, but I also believe that we face as Christian people, as people who are followers and disciples of Jesus Christ, a crisis right now for our country that transcends our denominational differences and ought to remind us of the things that we deeply have in common, including first and foremost, our reverence for our Lord, Jesus Christ, and His commitment to the will of His Father, when it comes to human right and justice. And I think that this is being do deeply challenged in our society right now that Christian people just need to come together on the common ground of our commitment to our faith in Jesus Christ and His Father God, and remind people of this country of a simple fact — that our rights come from God, and must be exercised with the authority of the Creator God And that that must be true in all our policies, if we are to hold on to this great gift of liberty with which God has endowed us and by His providence has been expressed in our constitutional system.
And that is what's what I try to do when I'm talking to all kinds of audiences, because I have great many of supporters across every denominational line, because I think people are faithfully committed in their hearts to witness the truth of God's authority in this country.
TOLO: Since God has put us in this moment of complete candor, do you agree Dr. Keyes with the notion of praying to Mary?
KEYES: I agree with the notion of reverence to the Mother of God. I think that was reflected in the scripture, as well in the words that were spoke to her, "Hail, Mary full of grace." I simply have the understanding and reverence for the Blessed Virgin Mother of God that Jesus, himself, had.
TOLO: Understanding the distinction between having a reverence for someone and actually praying to them.
KEYES: I understand the distinction, because prayer when it has to do with the Blessed Virgin and the Saints is asking for their help, so that through what they had learned in the course of their faithful service to Christ and to our Father God, we would be instructed and that we would share in the faithful spirit of their faith as we walk our Christian walk.
It's much the same way in which we try, I think, to encourage and help one another in that Christian walk as we are alive.
TOLO: Fairly asked. Fairly answered. In these 22 seconds of your Republican rival Mike Huckabee, I'd like to play the clip and then have you react to whether this is, in fact, appropriate for a presidential candidate on the campaign trail.
[clip]
MIKE HUCKABEE: Tonight, we are making sure that America understands that sometimes one small, smooth stone is even more effective than a whole lot of armor. [cheers]
And we've also seen that the widow's mite has more effectiveness than all the gold in the world. [cheers]
TOLO: All of that, Dr. Keyes, as a fellow born again Christian, must strike you as true. It comes from God's word, but is it appropriate for a presidential candidate actively campaigning?
KEYES: Well, first of all, of course it is. This nation is founded on the premise of God's authority.
TOLO: I agree.
KEYES: The whole notion that there is something inappropriate about speaking out, invoking, taking seriously the guidance of the scripture with respect to that authority, it's simply a lie that's been perpetrated in order to try to separate the American people from their liberty. Since once you've separated them from their reverence for the authority of God, there is no basis for asserting the unalienable rights that are the premise of government based on consent that are the premise of our liberty.
And the one area where I would disagree with Mike Huckabee is — it's all well and good to try, when you're campaigning to get votes on the basis of exemplification of faith, but you've got to apply that to your policy decisions. You've got to think them all through on the basis of their consistency with the godly premises of our foundation as expressed in our Declaration. And I don't think big government approaches do that. I think that socialism and liberalism contradict the implications of that doctrine of godly authority that's presented in the Declaration, because it goes hand in hand with individual responsibility, individual obligation, individual and family empowerment, and respect for the kind of self-government that leaves critical judgment — especially about faith and education and the raising of children — in the hands of the family, not in the hands of the government bureaucrats.
And so the whole idea of big government conservatism that his career has represented makes my head ache, it's such a contradiction in terms. It doesn't make any sense. And this is not the only choice we've got, because we can stand firm in the kind of conservatism that Ronald Reagan represented. And that, I think, It does have to be re-applied and re-articulated for the great challenges we face. But it is being done, and I think we need to stand seriously forward to bear witness to that. And that's why I have stepped forward to offer a true conservative choice — a complete one, that folks can choose in such a way as to help America find the kind of path that will both preserve our sovereignty, our liberty, and the godly principles that our country was based on.
TOLO: Could you vote for Governor Huckabee.
KEYES: Again, I am not going to abandon my conservative principles.
TOLO: No, if he's the nominee, sir.
KEYES: Why . . . I'll ask you a simple question. Why am I being asked to stand away from that conservatism that I believe is absolutely essential to the preservation of constitutional self-government?
TOLO: I don't begrudge you that at all. I think that you're clearly the most brilliant man running for president. I'm just asking . . . I mean.
KEYES: I am working hard so that people will not have to support any form of liberalism, socialism, other "isms" that contradict our liberty, and even if Mike Huckabee's well-intentioned that's where he stands, and I don't stand there. [unintelligible] like myself.
TOLO: So, forgive me, but will you vote then . . . So, you will only vote for yourself, which I would applaud since you're a candidate, but you will step in and write in your own name?
KEYES: I am voting for myself . . .
TOLO: And I may caucus for you Saturday . . . I want you to understand . . . hang on . .. hang on . . . okay.
KEYES: . . . Wait . . . it's not for a person. I hope they're voting a consistent, coherent lifelong understanding that has been consistently applied and exemplified.
TOLO: I agree. In these 45 minutes, sir, you may have convinced me, which an hour ago would have been unimaginable that I wouldn't be actively caucusing for Mike Huckabee. You may have convince me in 44 minutes to actually caucus for you on Saturday. I just want to get a, you know, a feel for the cut of the man's jib, as George Will would say. I mean, I just want to know what makes you tick, so I can feel even more confident about caucusing for you.
KEYES: I would invite folks to follow your advice there. Go to AlanKeyes.com. It's an unusual political website, because we've collected and archived speeches, video . . . I mean everything stretching back to 1989, I think it goes all the way back to there. And people can sit an browse and read and find out on the whole range of issues what I have been thinking. How I have been acting. What I have been arguing. I've had debates with people like Alan Dershowitz and others. I have stood foursquare with foreign policy issues for the strength of this country. I have defended and helped to build up organizations like the Minutemen, so we would have people whose voice would be heard in terms of our sovereignty and border security. And people can see that. They don't have to take my word for it, because I think at election time politicians words aren't very trustworthy. It's their deeds. [chuckle]
TOLO: All right . . . I've got 30 seconds, so please allow me to ask you for brevity with the answer.
KEYES: uh huh . . . sure
TOLO: I just want to be clear. So, allow me to be a journalist here. Okay. You will not vote for John McCain. You will not vote for Mike Huckabee. You would not vote for any Republican nominee who does not share right down the road your conservative values, which I admire. You will only vote for yourself, unless somebody comes in so completely aligned with you in Minneapolis that you would, in fact, consider voting for that person.
KEYES: Right. I think America demands right now, if our liberty is to survive, the consistent conservatism. And as I said in the beginning, you know, if we don't find a right choice to preserve our liberty among the choices that are being allowed us from the media censors and party bosses with their communist-style approach, then we ought to start doing what Americans do . . .
TOLO: All right. I may do something I never thought I'd do . . . caucus . . . I just didn't imagine I'd ever caucus for anyone other than the governor, and you may have sold me. Thank you very, very much. Dr. Alan Keyes at AlanKeyes.com. Keyes spelled K-E-Y-E-S. That's AlanKeyes.com.
KEYES: Thank you!
TOLO: You have a great rest of the evening. Thank you.
KEYES: Thank you. You, too. Bye, bye.
TOLO: I'm Thor Tolo.
And yet that candor that we love in politicians or that we ought to admire is so sorely lacking nowadays. What used to be the author of the Straight-talk Express is now a compromising conservative named John McCain. We even have hints of flip-flopping from a true Evangelical candidate like Mike Huckabee, whose wife Janet will appear in our studios tomorrow, is scheduled at 4:30 — and as we hope, she'll be able to dial up Mike during the course of our half hour interview between 4:30 and 5:00. Now, that is tomorrow. It is that hope to have the Huckabee candidacy succeed to the extent that even though he has no real mathematical shot in terms of delegates to be the Republican nominee. We hopefully can get to a point in this campaign, even if it's on the left with Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, that when we hear a question asked of the candidates, we are getting without a doubt to be a genuinely honest answer.
The same is true of Dr. Alan Keyes, who has always been labeled a long-shot candidate, who has, in fact, run for president of these United States, someone who went up against the Barack Obama political machine in 2004 for a U.S. Senate seat in the state of Illinois. And, of course, as we all know by now, Senator Obama won the race and is within a whisker of the presidency, if all falls into place over the next two or three months. It is a grueling process for the Democrats on the road to Denver. It is just as grueling on the road to Minneapolis where the Republican convention will be staged later this summer.
It appears, though that the muddled nature of the Republican race has become pretty crystal clear now that this guy has stepped aside:
[clip of Mitt Romney's concession speech]
MITT ROMNEY: Today, we are a nation at war, and Barack and Hillary have made their intentions clear regarding Iraq and the War on Terror. They would retreat, declare defeat, and the consequence of that would be devastating. It would mean attacks on America. Watch from save havens, it would make Afghanistan under the Taliban look like child's play. About this I have no doubt.
Now, I disagree with Senator McCain on a number of issues, as you know. [cheers, boos] But I agree with him on doing whatever it takes to be successful in Iraq and finding and executing Osama Bin Laden. [cheers]
TOLO: Those moments of sincerity have become glaringly lacking, I believe, in the Romney candidacy for president. He, of course, announcing that he is suspending his campaign, and in essence dropping out of the race for the oval office. And it is the same Mitt Romney, who despite his Mormonism, has, in fact, postured himself, fairly, I believe, as the most conservative of the candidates, but it's been the flip-flopping that has haunted him — going from pro-choice to pro-life. Once defending the right of a man to marry another man or a woman to marry another woman, and now saying, hey, he is a great defender of traditional marriage.
This is the same Mitt Romney that our next guest, Dr. Alan Keyes, believes single-handedly instituted same-sex marriage while governor of Massachusetts. Alan Keyes the Republican presidential candidate, who lobbied against that state's adoption of same-sex marriage when it was imminent 3 ½ years ago, when most people were unaware of the way Massachusetts had come about adopting same-sex marriage. The man who once served Ronald Reagan administration, as a diplomat, believes that the state's supreme judicial court in Massachusetts forced it to happen, for that is still today the perception of what happened, but as Alan Keyes is about to remind us, that is absolutely, positively a false perception.
Joining us for the first time on the Thor Tolo Show is Dr. Alan Keyes from the Heartland. Dr. Keyes, an honor to have you on this afternoon's show.
ALAN KEYES: Thank you. Glad to be with you. Appreciate it.
TOLO: Indeed, why does this perception persist, sir, that, in fact, it was the Supreme Judicial court of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and not then-Governor Mitt Romney, almost single-handedly responsible for instituting same-sex marriage.
KEYES: Well, I think it persists only because people don't look at what the court actually said in its decision.
TOLO: What did they say?
KEYES: Because they acknowledged that they did not have the power to change the laws of Massachusetts. The judiciary cannot do that. They expressed an opinion about gay marriage, and that was all they did. Because it was all that they could do under the constitution of Massachusetts, which makes it clear — as do, in fact, all our states and the federal constitution, as well — that the judiciary has no power to make laws. They can have whatever opinion they like about what the law should be, but it's up to the representatives of the people to make the law, and if they do not act, there is no change in the law.
And they said this in their own decision, that the legislature was the only one that could change the law. And therefore, the legislature could or could not act. The judiciary can't force the legislature to act, because the legislature is independent from the judiciary, and so the opinion of the judiciary does not have the force of law, did not have the force of law in Massachusetts. Nothing changed.
And then, Mitt Romney, without any basis in the law — because the legislature did not change it, or the constitution, because the court could not change it, having no authority to do so — then ordered the justices of the peace in Massachusetts to perform gay marriage, even though that order itself was both unconstitutional and illegal.
TOLO: Hmm
KEYES: But as I understand it, he had made a promise to the Log Cabin Republicans, and he was just determined, regardless, to keep it, and to make sure they were placated, even as he now tells us, or did tell us, that he's always had these pro-life convictions, but the oath he made to uphold the Constitution of the United States and to uphold the rights, unalienable rights, of our people, that doesn't matter to him. Because he was so interested in becoming governor and fulfilling his ambition that he was willing to sign into law bills that paid for abortion and to tell the people of Massachusetts that he was in favor of a woman's right to choose, and would defend that right, and all of this, even as babies were dying.
So, I think, sadly, a lot of people saw through the Romney candidacy — the reality that it was not about principle, it was not about issues. It was about his ambition and his willingness to do whatever it took to promote that ambition. So, if you have to lie to the people of Massachusetts to become governor, you do it, and then you turn around and you tell people that you've been pro-life all along. But unfortunately, those people are going to look at you and say, "Well, you were lying then, how can we be sure you're telling the truth now." And I think that makes a serious problem.
TOLO: In the same spirit that Michael Moore has said that he could not, in good conscience, vote for Hillary Clinton, at least during the primary process, because of her continually voting to support funding to support the troops, and her vote to allow Bush to take us to war, in the first place. In that same vein, could you, in good conscience, have voted for or publicly supported Mitt Romney if he had become the Republican nominee.
KEYES: Well, no. I've made it very clear, I've made it very clear with respect to Rudy Giuliani, with respect to Mitt Romney, and others, that I'm not buying into this whole phony business that's been going on. I think that these candidates were reinventing themselves when what they said contradicted their records. The same is happening with John McCain. There's not a single constituency of true conservatives that doesn't have one of John McCain's knives stickin' out of our backs.
TOLO: Wow!
KEYES: Where he betrayed conservatism in the name of bipartisanship, but actually in the name of trying to serve his own presidential ambition. And that includes the McCain-Feingold bill, a direct assault on freedom of speech, on the ability of conservative grassroots organizations to raise money, on their ability to communicate with the electorate. He has made a determined effort to shut down true democratic, self-government in this country, so that people can't organize, can't raise money, can't associate, and can't communicate about the records of their representatives. And that kind of assault is a deadly blow against the possibility of self-government and constitutionalism in America.
And we're just supposed to forget about it now, and listen to his words that his pollsters tell him he's got to say to please and placate people, but I don't think people are that stupid. I really don't. The same is true of the border security issue. He fought tooth and nail against the Minutemen and others who wanted to see the barriers put up and border assured. Instead, he promoted an amnesty bill that would have devastated the sovereignty of the American people and would have produced demographic changes that confirm the invasion that, in effect, has taken place on our nation's territory and soil. And now he wants us to believe, "Oh, I'm in favor of strong border security, because I know you people won't vote for me if you know the truth." Are we that stupid? Have we really become that gullible as a people that we let these politicians change their words and will ignore their actual work and record in the process? I hope not, and don't think so.
Other conservatives fought hard to get good judicial nominees set up there, and this guy, looking to refurbish or build up his reputation for bipartisanship, torpedoed their efforts to get good conservative justices through and joined hands with the Teddy Kennedys of the world to defeat the effort.
This is not soon to be forgotten, by people who understand what it takes, the sacrifices that have been involved in trying to elect good solid conservative majorities in the Senate and the House, only to see them betrayed because of the actions of people like John McCain.
So, I find it entirely implausible that good hearted and good conscienced conservatives are suddenly going to forget that whole record, which in point of fact means that he's been moving in a direction indistinguishable from Hillary Clinton. The only difference will be the label.
TOLO: When we return, we're going to "A" draw Dr. Alan Keyes out a little bit, so we're a little more clear to his opinions. [laughter] And we'll also explain why not only could I in not in good faith, caucus for Mitt Romney this Saturday, had he remained in the race, there's no way I could caucus for John McCain either. And so I shant.
What does Laura Ingraham have to say about John McCain? You'll hear her in one minute.
[break]
. . . and your phone calls, too, for Dr. Alan Keyes at 800-955-8200. Still to come will be our first stop when we return. Laura Ingraham is not a bad stop if you're looking for political venom.
[clip]
LAURA INGRAHAM: You know, I don't think any of us in this room is going to expect a Ronald Reagan is going to walk through the door. That's, you know, no one can embody all of Ronald Reagan. It's impossible. He was a man unique to his time and his challenges.
But we do want, and I think deserve, a candidate who is proud to be a conservative and who embodies conservative ideals. Is that too much to ask? [applause]
TOLO: Okay then.
ANNOUNCER: You're listening to the Thor Tolo Show on 820AM, KGNW. Once again here's Thor.
TOLO: Before we rejoin our guest Alan Keyes, we rejoin Laura Ingraham, still ranting.
[clip]
INGRAHAM: Here's another little nugget for you. I don't think it's enough to say that, you know, you were a foot soldier in the Reagan Revolution. I think the question is: What have you been doing for conservatism lately? [cheers]
TOLO: That's called a "shot over the bow," and it's not possible to miss that shot fired by arch-conservative, Laura Ingraham. We have another arch-conservative, like Ann Colter, claiming she'll vote for Hillary Clinton if she is the nominee of the Democratic Party, and McCain gets coronated in Minneapolis. Would you go that far, Dr. Alan Keyes?
KEYES: I'll just make it very clear. I'm not going to support John McCain, and that's just simply that. And I think a lot of conservatives feel very deeply about that . . .
[overtalk]
TOLO: Which makes my question, which makes my question . . .
KEYES: . . . if we just stop, just stop allowing these people to lie their way into office, and then express shock and surprise when they turn out to be exactly what we know they are from their record, from their activities, from their pronouncements.
Any fool who votes for John McCain and believes in conservatives' ideas and values deserves exactly what they get, and it's time we stop doing it.
But unlike Laura Ingraham and [unintelligible], this is not our alternative. We can nominate a real conservative. Somebody who has fought for, stood for, and been in the forefront of all of the causes we hold dear, for the conservative conscience, limited government, fiscal responsibility, a strong America in the fight against terror, but also along our borders.
Unlike John McCain, I have stood foursquare where conservatives are standing for the sake of America, and I've done it consistently with no exceptions throughout my career. And I think that if we're looking for reality in terms of the kind of commitment that's needed to lead this nation properly, we need experience in national security and foreign policy, such as I have, but we also need a deep knowledge of the Constitution and how to defend it, such as I have. And we need true and proven commitment. And also finally, you need an ability to articulate all those things to the American people, and no one — not in the Republican Party or the conservative movement — claims that there's anyone better at that than Alan Keyes.
TOLO: But you'll forgive the fairness of my question then. If McCain is — please humor the hypothetical — is to become the nominee, and it's Hillary on the left, for whom will you vote? Or will you write in your own name?
KEYES: Well, my answer to that question is very simple. If the two parties start walking down this same road of big government conservatism, betrayal of our sovereignty, destruction of our constitutional self-government — Americans know how to build new cars, we know how to build new houses, we know how to build all kinds of new business enterprises — I bet we still know how to build new political parties.
TOLO: Ahhh . . . the shot over his own bow there on maybe getting that third party, which is entirely possible with the billions that Michael Bloomberg has in New York.
KEYES: Well, I don't know about money. What I'm thinking of is the fact that the majority of people in this country want border security. They don't want amnesty. Both Huckabee and McCain stood, in their careers, for the amnesty approach. Mike Huckabee wanted to extend college scholarships and other benefits to illegal aliens. He even would compensate for slavery somehow in the way we treated illegal immigrants, rather than understanding and committing ourselves to what has, in fact, been a generous immigration policy. But no policy makes any sense if you're not enforcing border security, which our elites have betrayed us on, and if you're not enforcing the laws you then put on the books. It's all worthless — it's all just words — if it's not properly enforced by a commitment to defend the sovereignty of the American people. And neither Huckabee nor McCain cared anything about this commitment until they read some polls that told them how angry people are over the betrayal of American sovereignty that has taken place in the last 15 years and more. We are angry. We're angry at the prospect that they have allowed a demographic invasion that shifts control of this country out of the hands of its people for the sake of a greedy elite that's serving their own selfish purposes. People aren't stupid. They understand what's happened. And they want it stopped, and so do I.
TOLO: Good news. We have 20 more minutes with our featured guest, Dr. Alan Keyes. Here's Craig in Steilacoom, our first stop. Followed by a caller from Lake Forest Park, Illinois, who we thank for listening online, as we audio stream live at KGNW.com.
Craig, good afternoon. And you are live with Republican candidate Alan Keyes.
CRAIG: Thank goodness. And thank you, Thor, for having him on — and Dr. Keyes, I want to just first say that I have for quite some time been a great admirer of yours. There was one brief shining moment a few years ago when you were running for president when you led in our district, because I was the first one to cast a vote at the polls.
KEYES: [chuckle]
CRAIG: And I also want to say that this outrage that you've been expressing reflects my sentiments precisely, and I'm very much with you.
KEYES: Thank you.
CRAIG: And I'm very frustrated with the Republican Party for those very reasons that you've been bringing up. But I hope to be caucusing Saturday, and so of all the forerunners, uh . . . [chuckle], in the party, the one I thought I might possibly be able to vote for, would be Huckabee, I was very pleasantly surprised when I found out only by opening my pamphlet that you are also a candidate, and I would much rather vote for you. I wonder if you could continue to outline the differences that you have with Huckabee on important issues.
KEYES: Well, I think the most important is a fundamental one. And I'll put it this way. Many months ago, I started getting calls from some of my old colleagues in the Reagan administration, and they were asking me to attend fundraisers for Rudy Giuliani. And I felt a certain kind of moral indignation at this. I've spent my whole life fighting for pro-life principles, in support of traditional marriage, fighting to respect the simple moral premise that our rights come from God and must be exercised with respect for the authority of God, and to support somebody like that would be betraying everything I believe in and also abandoning my allegiance to my faith in God. And I told them in the front, "No. Never gonna happen. Won't do this." And if the party goes down that road, it goes down that road without Alan Keyes.
Then on the other hand, people started getting in touch with me some months ago, and saying that our big hope is Mike Huckabee, the governor of Arkansas, he's pro-life. And then I started looking at his record, and it turns out that he's a liberal on everything else — expanding the size of government in Arkansas; raising the taxes in Arkansas by a net of a half a billion dollars; expanding, as I said, this amnesty mentality, rather than defending our borders and our sovereignty; defending the big government take over that actually was represented by a lot of the Bush policies on education, rather than championing school choice and the kinds of things that will put control back in the hands of parents and local communities, where it belongs on education. These are the approaches of what they call the "big government conservatives." That's a term somebody invented, in order to cover up the reality that these people are liberals. And though he is good in his record on pro-life, do I have to sell-out every other element of conservatism? Do I have to adopt approaches that are, in fact, inconsistent with the concept of liberty I defend by defending the innocent life of the child — a concept that sees us as responsible before God, and therefore there's a necessity for responsibility, moral character, all of which big government approaches destroy? And I wrote a book about this — "Master of the Dream: The Strength and Betrayal of Black America," arguing cogently, I believe, that these big socialist approaches destroyed the moral fiber of the black community, undermined the work incentive, undermined the family. This is a bad idea. Socialism and liberty are incompatible, and I think Mike Huckabee simply in his career doesn't realize it.
TOLO: Forgive me for not knowing off-hand, Dr. Keyes. Are we able in Washington as Republicans to caucus for you? Can we caucus for anybody?
KEYES: Yes, yes, yes
TOLO: It doesn't have to be a limited number of likely candidates or likely nominees . . . I can caucus for my wife, if I wanted.
KEYES: Well, we have worked hard to understand it, and we've been dealing with people in Washington state. We have supporters there.
TOLO: Great.
KEYES: And we have encouraged folks to communicate. There is a conservative choice. We don't have to give up now.
TOLO: I may caucus for you. In getting back to Romney where we started this conversation — and we'll wind it up in a few minutes — the fact of the matter is, even when Romney had it right, which was labeling McCain, correctly, as an author of amnesty, even then Romney wimped out on national television and back pedaled saying, "I didn't really call it amnesty." And then they rolled a Romney ad and in which he accurately called it amnesty. Even when Romney was right, he wimped out.
KEYES: Well, see the sad thing is does your rightness come from a desire to please people, or from a desire to take the right stand for what's true and good for America?
TOLO: That's it! The later being Ronald Reagan. That's right that's absolutely right! Okay. We have one more segment with Alan Keyes. What a phenomenal guest!
You can support, you can support if you're liken what you're hearin' so far. You can support the campaign of our featured guest, Alan Keyes, at AlanKeyes.com. Keyes spelled K-E-Y-E-S, and of course, Alan, A-L-A-N. Just go to AlanKeyes.com. Again the spelling, K-E-Y-E-S. That's AlanKeyes.com.
Our next stop for the long shot Republican candidate is in Lake Forest Park, Illinois. Marcus, good afternoon. You're on AM820, KGNW.
MARCUS: Dr. Keyes, are you Catholic?
KEYES: Yes. I am.
MARCUS: You are very articulate, and you speak to issues that I think the Evangelical Christian community supports. You're a very intelligent man. Why would you be in the Catholic Church when it is foundationally has so many, I'd say, doctrinal errors? When you're able to articulate from a political stance errors in thinking, why are you in the Catholic Church and not a Protestant?
TOLO: Marcus's question's as pointed as your opinions, Dr. Keyes. Have at it.
KEYES: Well, I'm a Catholic, because I believe that the Catholic Church's teachings correspond with true . . . both realities of the scripture and of the Catholic Church, the combined wisdom of a great many people over the centuries that have been brought to bear on a scriptural basis. And I know there's a scriptural misunderstanding about that, because some folks think that the Catholic Church departs somehow from reverence for the scriptures. But that is not true.
And I am somebody who believes in the scripture, who takes it very seriously, who has accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, and I believe that that faith, rightly understood and with Catholicism rightly understood, is exactly what it means to be a practicing Roman Catholic Christian. And that is what I am, and I'm always glad to talk to people about these matters, because I believe they are deeply and critically important, but I also believe that we face as Christian people, as people who are followers and disciples of Jesus Christ, a crisis right now for our country that transcends our denominational differences and ought to remind us of the things that we deeply have in common, including first and foremost, our reverence for our Lord, Jesus Christ, and His commitment to the will of His Father, when it comes to human right and justice. And I think that this is being do deeply challenged in our society right now that Christian people just need to come together on the common ground of our commitment to our faith in Jesus Christ and His Father God, and remind people of this country of a simple fact — that our rights come from God, and must be exercised with the authority of the Creator God And that that must be true in all our policies, if we are to hold on to this great gift of liberty with which God has endowed us and by His providence has been expressed in our constitutional system.
And that is what's what I try to do when I'm talking to all kinds of audiences, because I have great many of supporters across every denominational line, because I think people are faithfully committed in their hearts to witness the truth of God's authority in this country.
TOLO: Since God has put us in this moment of complete candor, do you agree Dr. Keyes with the notion of praying to Mary?
KEYES: I agree with the notion of reverence to the Mother of God. I think that was reflected in the scripture, as well in the words that were spoke to her, "Hail, Mary full of grace." I simply have the understanding and reverence for the Blessed Virgin Mother of God that Jesus, himself, had.
TOLO: Understanding the distinction between having a reverence for someone and actually praying to them.
KEYES: I understand the distinction, because prayer when it has to do with the Blessed Virgin and the Saints is asking for their help, so that through what they had learned in the course of their faithful service to Christ and to our Father God, we would be instructed and that we would share in the faithful spirit of their faith as we walk our Christian walk.
It's much the same way in which we try, I think, to encourage and help one another in that Christian walk as we are alive.
TOLO: Fairly asked. Fairly answered. In these 22 seconds of your Republican rival Mike Huckabee, I'd like to play the clip and then have you react to whether this is, in fact, appropriate for a presidential candidate on the campaign trail.
[clip]
MIKE HUCKABEE: Tonight, we are making sure that America understands that sometimes one small, smooth stone is even more effective than a whole lot of armor. [cheers]
And we've also seen that the widow's mite has more effectiveness than all the gold in the world. [cheers]
TOLO: All of that, Dr. Keyes, as a fellow born again Christian, must strike you as true. It comes from God's word, but is it appropriate for a presidential candidate actively campaigning?
KEYES: Well, first of all, of course it is. This nation is founded on the premise of God's authority.
TOLO: I agree.
KEYES: The whole notion that there is something inappropriate about speaking out, invoking, taking seriously the guidance of the scripture with respect to that authority, it's simply a lie that's been perpetrated in order to try to separate the American people from their liberty. Since once you've separated them from their reverence for the authority of God, there is no basis for asserting the unalienable rights that are the premise of government based on consent that are the premise of our liberty.
And the one area where I would disagree with Mike Huckabee is — it's all well and good to try, when you're campaigning to get votes on the basis of exemplification of faith, but you've got to apply that to your policy decisions. You've got to think them all through on the basis of their consistency with the godly premises of our foundation as expressed in our Declaration. And I don't think big government approaches do that. I think that socialism and liberalism contradict the implications of that doctrine of godly authority that's presented in the Declaration, because it goes hand in hand with individual responsibility, individual obligation, individual and family empowerment, and respect for the kind of self-government that leaves critical judgment — especially about faith and education and the raising of children — in the hands of the family, not in the hands of the government bureaucrats.
And so the whole idea of big government conservatism that his career has represented makes my head ache, it's such a contradiction in terms. It doesn't make any sense. And this is not the only choice we've got, because we can stand firm in the kind of conservatism that Ronald Reagan represented. And that, I think, It does have to be re-applied and re-articulated for the great challenges we face. But it is being done, and I think we need to stand seriously forward to bear witness to that. And that's why I have stepped forward to offer a true conservative choice — a complete one, that folks can choose in such a way as to help America find the kind of path that will both preserve our sovereignty, our liberty, and the godly principles that our country was based on.
TOLO: Could you vote for Governor Huckabee.
KEYES: Again, I am not going to abandon my conservative principles.
TOLO: No, if he's the nominee, sir.
KEYES: Why . . . I'll ask you a simple question. Why am I being asked to stand away from that conservatism that I believe is absolutely essential to the preservation of constitutional self-government?
TOLO: I don't begrudge you that at all. I think that you're clearly the most brilliant man running for president. I'm just asking . . . I mean.
KEYES: I am working hard so that people will not have to support any form of liberalism, socialism, other "isms" that contradict our liberty, and even if Mike Huckabee's well-intentioned that's where he stands, and I don't stand there. [unintelligible] like myself.
TOLO: So, forgive me, but will you vote then . . . So, you will only vote for yourself, which I would applaud since you're a candidate, but you will step in and write in your own name?
KEYES: I am voting for myself . . .
TOLO: And I may caucus for you Saturday . . . I want you to understand . . . hang on . .. hang on . . . okay.
KEYES: . . . Wait . . . it's not for a person. I hope they're voting a consistent, coherent lifelong understanding that has been consistently applied and exemplified.
TOLO: I agree. In these 45 minutes, sir, you may have convinced me, which an hour ago would have been unimaginable that I wouldn't be actively caucusing for Mike Huckabee. You may have convince me in 44 minutes to actually caucus for you on Saturday. I just want to get a, you know, a feel for the cut of the man's jib, as George Will would say. I mean, I just want to know what makes you tick, so I can feel even more confident about caucusing for you.
KEYES: I would invite folks to follow your advice there. Go to AlanKeyes.com. It's an unusual political website, because we've collected and archived speeches, video . . . I mean everything stretching back to 1989, I think it goes all the way back to there. And people can sit an browse and read and find out on the whole range of issues what I have been thinking. How I have been acting. What I have been arguing. I've had debates with people like Alan Dershowitz and others. I have stood foursquare with foreign policy issues for the strength of this country. I have defended and helped to build up organizations like the Minutemen, so we would have people whose voice would be heard in terms of our sovereignty and border security. And people can see that. They don't have to take my word for it, because I think at election time politicians words aren't very trustworthy. It's their deeds. [chuckle]
TOLO: All right . . . I've got 30 seconds, so please allow me to ask you for brevity with the answer.
KEYES: uh huh . . . sure
TOLO: I just want to be clear. So, allow me to be a journalist here. Okay. You will not vote for John McCain. You will not vote for Mike Huckabee. You would not vote for any Republican nominee who does not share right down the road your conservative values, which I admire. You will only vote for yourself, unless somebody comes in so completely aligned with you in Minneapolis that you would, in fact, consider voting for that person.
KEYES: Right. I think America demands right now, if our liberty is to survive, the consistent conservatism. And as I said in the beginning, you know, if we don't find a right choice to preserve our liberty among the choices that are being allowed us from the media censors and party bosses with their communist-style approach, then we ought to start doing what Americans do . . .
TOLO: All right. I may do something I never thought I'd do . . . caucus . . . I just didn't imagine I'd ever caucus for anyone other than the governor, and you may have sold me. Thank you very, very much. Dr. Alan Keyes at AlanKeyes.com. Keyes spelled K-E-Y-E-S. That's AlanKeyes.com.
KEYES: Thank you!
TOLO: You have a great rest of the evening. Thank you.
KEYES: Thank you. You, too. Bye, bye.
TOLO: I'm Thor Tolo.