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Radio interview
Alan Keyes on Sean Hannity Show
December 14, 2007

HANNITY: Most people didn't know that former U.N. Ambassador Alan Keyes had gotten into this presidential race. And, anyway, he joins us on our newsmaker line right now. Ambassador, how are you?

KEYES: I'm doing very well. How are you, Sean?

HANNITY: I'm good. Why the late entry, and why with so little fanfare? I mean, when I first heard you were getting into this, about a month ago, I called you and said, "Come on the show," and you said you weren't ready yet.

KEYES: Well, we've been quietly doing our work around the country at the grassroots, trying to give people the real sense that I believe politics isn't about media, Sean. I respect and love media. I've worked in it. But politics is about people. And I believe our system is being hijacked. We're making it into a spectator sport. We're giving people the impression that it's something that you watch on TV or listen to on the radio, and I wanted to make sure that we were building, around the country, a base of grassroots support, of activists, of people pledged to do what was needed, so that we would be coming from where I think politics needs to come from — from the bottom up, from the real grassroots, to represent what real grassroots people are about.

So at, we've been asking people to come forward, garnering support, and real pledges of commitment to the kind of active work that's needed so we'd have a good, solid core of folks who would be working with us to make the campaign live throughout the country, and that's been my emphasis, and it continues to be a great emphasis in the campaign, 'cause that's what I believe in — grassroots politics.

HANNITY: Let me just inject, if I may, Ambassador, is that I'm very critical of what I call the left-wing media, and I agree with you, in many ways, it's been hijacked here, and I'm all for grassroots campaigning. I think that's noble, and I think that's great. But you've got to admit that, right now, you're on nearly five hundred and fifty of the best radio stations in the country. You go on the Fox News Channel, you're going to have millions of viewers.

KEYES: I'm not denying that. I'm saying the homework I felt we had to do — right? — and I think that, due to participation in the debate the other night, I was clarifying for folks and building the corps (core) that's necessary for the one thing that I believe is needful for this country's future, and that distinguishes me from Mike Huckabee and everybody else. I'm not in this to use God, or to promote faith. I'm in it to make it clear that this country is founded on a premise that requires the existence and authority of God, and that as a people, on issues across the board, we are now faced with the challenge of deciding whether what Lincoln said was a nation conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal — that Declaration principle that relies on invoking and appealing to God — whether that is going to be the foundation of American liberty, or whether we're going to throw it away and destroy the Republic.

I think that's the challenge, the key challenge facing us today, and I'm sorry. The reason I intervened the other night, even though the lady wanted me to be quiet, and overlooked me several times, and so forth, I —

HANNITY: We've been friends for a long time, I mean, good luck —

KEYES: The reason I intervened the other day was that Mike Huckabee gives an answer on education, doesn't mention a word about God or moral premise. Every moral conservative in this country deeply believes that the greatest challenge to our education began when the Supreme Court drove prayer out of our public schools, and when we decided we were going to unmoor our education from the moral foundations of this country's great moral principles.

HANNITY: But, Ambassador, wait, wait. You're not questioning Mike Huckabee's religious faith, or . . .

KEYES: That has nothing to do with it. I didn't say anything about that. This is the problem — that's trivializing the issue. The issue —

HANNITY: I'm not trivializing the issue. I'm trying to listen to what you're saying.

KEYES: I don't mean you. No. That's the way the issue's been cast, Sean. I'm not saying you're trivializing it.

The fact that people would act as if what's going on here is some issue of somebody's personal faith — no. I just made a statement about our national principles. That's a factual statement. The fact is, the country was founded on the premise that we are all created — that is, made by God — equal, and for that to matter to justice, God's authority as He created us has to matter.

So, two things are involved. God exists, He created us, and His authority has to be respected. Those are the three premises on which our Declaration of Independence moral principles which then require, what? Government by consent, that respects our unalienable rights. So, these premises —

HANNITY: So let me ask you this.

KEYES: — rest on God's authority. That's not a matter of personal faith. I am challenging this country to examine our national creed, and not to throw it away.

HANNITY: You said, "My first priority," in a WorldNetDaily interview you gave, would be to reestablish, within the Executive branch, respect for, and protection of, the unalienable rights of the unborn children in the womb —

KEYES: That's right.

HANNITY: — and to make sure that nothing was done by the Executive branch of the United States that violated the Constitution. You further went on to say the answer is to restore sovereignty to the American people —

KEYES: Right

HANNITY: — moral sovereignty, and you talked about abolishing the Income Tax. You think you can pull all that off?

KEYES: Certainly. I think the key thing to "pulling things off" in America is whether the people of this country want them. I hope that's still true.

Now, we know there's a big challenge to that, Sean, because we've seen how the people feel about the whole issue of border security, and yet the elites have been dragging their feet. They've been doing everything they can not to respond to the heartfelt belief that the border should be secured and controlled, and that our immigration laws should be enforced.

So we know it's a hard thing. The elites have betrayed us, and that includes Republicans, by the way — turned their back on the principle of government of, by, and for the people, and instead they're serving little cliques of interest who want to make money off of cheap labor, who believe in globalism and all this stuff, instead of serving the sovereign interests of the American people.

So the people want this, and I want to lead them as they achieve it. I think people also want back control over their income, and I'm going to make it quite clear that one of the things we've got to do is get rid of a system that can't even be enforced without violating our constitutional rights.

You know, whenever the government asks you a question — like, "What did you make last year?" — do you have to answer that question? Well, let's think about that.

If a policeman stops me on the street and asks me, "What did you make last year?" I could look at him and say, "Well, I don't feel like telling you that." And he would then, well, what would he have to do? He could arrest me, and when he arrested me, what would he have to say? He could say, "Well, I'm going to arrest you. You've got to answer that question. I'm taking you down to the station."

HANNITY: All right. Wait a minute.

KEYES: I've got to finish this. The Court has said this, Sean: he must read us our rights. And the first right he must read us is, "You have the right to remain silent. If you give up this right, anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law."

Why is it that that fundamental right, which is a consequence of the constitutional prohibition against self-incrimination, why is it that that's thrown to the four winds, when it comes to enforcing the income tax?

HANNITY: Well, let me ask you. Do you file an income tax every year?

KEYES: I think everybody, people have —

HANNITY: Well, wait, wait. Ambassador, don't — now, come on! Answer this question.

KEYES: Hold it. This is a question of right. I'm laying out, right now —

HANNITY: I understand.

KEYES: Hold on. Let me finish, though. I am laying out the simple question that has to be raised. Americans are law-abiding people, but the question is, is our law-abidingness being turned against us in a way that undermines and destroys fundamental constitutional rights?

HANNITY: Ambassador, I, I —

KEYES: Is this the only way we can fund the government?

HANNITY: No, I don't think so.

KEYES: I don't, either.

HANNITY: I, for example, believe that the Fair Tax is probably a much better system, because I — hang on — because it would eliminate the Income Tax, which I —

KEYES: That's right.

HANNITY: I think a legitimate intellectual argument can be made that it is unconstitutional.

KEYES: Right.

HANNITY: But, putting that aside, you yourself, I bet you do file income taxes, and you do volunteer that information, 'cause right now, that is the law.

KEYES: Wait a minute. That use of the word volunteer is wrong. Nobody volunteers that information. We are under coercion.

HANNITY: OK. That's fair.

KEYES: We are threatened by the force of law. It is a fiction to say —

HANNITY: OK, but you do file your income taxes.

KEYES: Sean, that fiction has to be maintained, because they know good and well that the government does not have the right to coerce us in this matter, and therefore, some fiction about it being voluntary, while they can come and take your house and everything else you own, away.

And so, I think the use of the word volunteering the information is entirely wrong. People don't. And therefore, one of the first things I'd want to do as president is put at the top of every income tax form, that warning. Simple statement, boldly declared: You have the right to remain silent. If you give up that right, everything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.

HANNITY: You think anybody would file, if you did that?

KEYES: I don't know. But let's find out. It is the right of the people. And if we're now working with a system that's based on the premise that you're going to fool them into violating their own rights, that's wrong. That's exactly what the Court did in Miranda. It said, "You can't do that. You can't fool an individual into giving up their rights. You can't deprive them of the knowledge that they need to secure those rights." And I think that's exactly correct.

So, in this particular case, let's extend to the whole American people what, up to this point, we have only have been willing to extend, I guess, to people who are suspected of heinous crimes. What is the heinous crime — making a living, now? I don't know.

HANNITY: Let me ask you this. You've mentioned God a lot, so far, in the course of our interview here, Ambassador. I've known you for a long time. I know that this is your deeply held — you know — principles and belief system. I understand that.

Religion has been a big part of this campaign. People have talked a lot about Governor Mitt Romney and the fact that he's a member of the Church of Latter Day Saints. He's a Mormon. It's in the paper today. I'm reading from the New York Post: "Mike Huckabee Under Fire in the — quote — GOP Holy War," this time, they call it, for endorsing a Baptist Church statement years ago, saying that women should, quote, "graciously submit to their husbands," and I, doing a little bit of research, I went back and I found out that this issue came up when you were running against Barack Obama, back in 2004, and the issue, you're quoted as saying that Christ would not vote for Obama.

KEYES: Let's distinguish a couple things. I do not believe that the issues I raise are, in that sense, issues about religion. That's something that the media has been talking about. They made up that issue. The issues I have consistently raised, and the arguments I have consistently made, are about the American principle, we are all created equal, endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights. Why that principle, to me, Sean, should be quite obvious.

That was the principle that rallied people against slavery. That was the principle Frederick Douglass appealed to, when he made his speeches on the equality of black folks, and why it was wrong to enslave them. That was the principle Martin Luther King appealed to time and time and time again, to demand justice, in the course of the civil rights movement. That principle is so important to the advancement of justice for all people in this country that there is no possible way you could assert any other principle as more important.

It's been the one under the rubric of which all different groups — women, children's protection, all kinds of folks — have stood up and said, "We must have treatment that respects our — "

HANNITY: So, let me ask you this.

KEYES: So, I raise that all the time. The reason God comes up is that He's in it!

HANNITY: But Barack Obama is now — Barack Obama, Ambassador, if I may —

KEYES: But the Obama comment, I'm going to get to that. The Obama comment is not only justifiable; it's necessary. The fact that, when I stand up, I talk about the issues of concern to America in terms of our principles doesn't mean that I don't get to talk to my fellow Christians in Christian terms. And to suggest that I can't talk to fellow Christians in a way the raises the question of our judgment with respect to political issues is bigoted, and a violation of my religious freedom.

HANNITY: Let me ask you this.

KEYES: Of course I get to do that. And so,

HANNITY: But you're quoted, Ambassador — Ambassador, help me out here. You used to be a host.

KEYES: I'm sorry. Go ahead.

HANNITY: Please don't filibuster. We're trying to get some information out here.

KEYES: I'm sorry. Yes.

HANNITY: In this interview, you had once said that Jesus would not vote for Obama. During that campaign, you called him a socialist and a liar. Do you think that helps you achieve the goal of winning the race?

KEYES: I get to say things that are true, I presume, right?

HANNITY: So, you don't believe Jesus would vote for Obama. Why?

KEYES: Let me tell you why. Do you know that, in the course of things in Illinois, they reached a point where a nurse — Jill Stanek — had come before people in the legislature, and she was telling them that there was a practice in Illinois hospitals where babies that had survived an abortion — this is not about abortion. This is about babies who are alive. They're out of the womb. They have survived the abortion. And, they were being put aside on the soiled linen cart, and left for hours to die. It was also the subject of the Born Alive Infant Protection Act. Do you remember that Act?


KEYES: That was supported, by the way, by bipartisan majorities in the Congress of the United States, and passed out. The same bipartisan majority existed in the Illinois state legislature, to stop infanticide, not abortion. Infanticide. Indisputably, infanticide.

And, Barack Obama — that was in his committee. He blocked the consideration of that bill. It didn't come out of that committee until he left, and his argument was, "Well, if we consider anything like this, the next thing, they'll be putting restrictions on abortion." He's that hard core, that he countenanced infanticide in order to protect an already deeply questionable so-called right, to kill babies in the womb. If that's not evil, I don't know what is. And if that's something that Jesus Christ would do — well! I think you're reading a different Scripture than I see.

HANNITY: Well, let me ask you —

KEYES: So, I think I simply spoke the truth.

HANNITY: Ambassador, I mean, Barack Obama's now leading in Iowa. He's leading in New Hampshire, in the polls. He's leading in South Carolina in the polls. Do you think he's got a chance of beating Hillary? Do you think he'll be their candidate?

KEYES: I don't know, but —

HANNITY: Because you ran once against him. That's the reason I'm asking.

KEYES: I think the only reason that anything like that is occurring is because the whole story I just told you, fully presented and understood, has never been given its proper attention in the press.

HANNITY: I'll tell you what. We'll give you more time. When we come back, we'll continue with now presidential candidate Ambassador Alan Keyes, has gotten in the race, as the Sean Hannity Show continues. Hannity and Colmes tonight, 9:00 eastern, and a special edition of Hannity's America this Sunday night, among which we'll look at the presidential race, and the years that are not spoken about, about Jesus, in the Bible.


HANNITY: Anyway, we continue now, with presidential candidate Ambassador Alan Keyes has gotten into the race. Ambassador, I mean, I've been looking at the polls. You don't show up yet, in any of the polls. Do you think you're going to win? Do you feel, at this late hour, you can, you can —

KEYES: Well, it's not a late hour, 'cause nobody's happy with this field. Let's see — you've got Rudy Giuliani, who requires that you forget the past of the Republican party, founded on the national principle that he rejects, by supporting abortion, and so you're going to totally abandon what the party is and has been from the moment it stepped into the world, and vote for somebody who abandons all its moral foundation.

Or, you can vote for Mitt Romney. Mitt Romney — as you have to forget the party's past with Giuliani, you have to forget his past, because he built his whole career advocating abortion, walking by the corpses of babies in the womb and acting like it was a right, and also, promoting homosexuality, signing stuff that homosexualized the schools, and other things. And then, he single-handedly imposes the actual performance of gay marriages in Massachusetts, which the court said was unlawful. Even the court said, "No law on this, until the legislature acts." The legislature didn't act, but the governor did, and now he wants to claim he's some big defender of traditional marriage. So, you forget his past.

Or, you can look at somebody like Fred Thompson. Everybody says he was all conservative. I see none of it. So, you have to ignore his past, act like he was invented yesterday, and you give up (inaudible).

All of the, by the way, promoting things that correspond pretty much to stock liberalism, including Mike Huckabee, who is good on the social issues, but when you examine the rest of the record, you have to buy into socialist big government, with respect to education and other things, and the same is true of Mitt Romney.

Can't we have a conservative? I think the people on the Republican side want a coherent, consistent, principled conservative, and — Ron Paul? Ron Paul's not a conservative. His foreign policy comes right out of the "Blame America First" book, that Jeane Kirkpatrick and I, and others, criticized roundly, when it was being used to undermine not only the confidence but support for America around the world, by international —

HANNITY: Ambassador, you certainly don't adhere to Ronald Reagan's Eleventh Commandment, about not criticizing thy fellow Republicans. I mean, it sounds like you're declaring a war against all of them.

KEYES: Frankly, I think that I care about this country, and I don't think politics is a game. I think it's the future of America

HANNITY: I'm not saying it's a game. I'm saying that you're ripping every single Republican.

KEYES: And therefore, I am not — I don't deal in personal stuff, or anything. I just made statements about the record. I made statements about the positions.

HANNITY: Well, let me ask you this.

KEYES: Those are the things that we must examine —

HANNITY: I got that.

KEYES: You asked me a question.

HANNITY: I know. But let me ask you another question. But if you compare the positions of every single Republican candidate with that of Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and John Edwards —

KEYES: That's not the comparison.

HANNITY: No. Let me finish my question.

KEYES: We're doing primaries, now, Sean.

HANNITY: No, excuse me. I'm asking — Ambassador, if you're going to be —

KEYES: I'm sorry.

HANNITY: Thank you. I'm asking that, on taxes, all of them want tax cuts. On winning in Iraq, they all want to win. On staying on offense in the war on terror — let me finish. They all want to stay on offense, in the war on terror. They all now have a position to close the borders, in spite of past positions. They all talk about energy independence in a way that is favorable, and they don't want HillaryCare. They want free market solutions.

KEYES: Sean —

HANNITY: Wait a minute. There is a big difference between the Republicans' positions, and Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and John Edwards' positions, and my question to you is, do you not see a distinction?

KEYES: Excuse me. Do you know what the big distinction is right now — the big problem? You're going through all that, and I'm asking you what it matters. A lot of people —

HANNITY: It matters dramatically.

KEYES: Please let me finish. A lot of people have been alive for the last several years. They know good and well that what these politicians say, including the Republicans, has nothing whatsoever to do with —

HANNITY: So, they're all lying to us.

KEYES: Excuse me. I didn't say that.

HANNITY: They're all lying to us.

KEYES: I'm talking about experience, now, Sean. There is a credibility gap between the Republican party, now, and its grassroots, because they saw the skyrocketing deficits from people who promised them limited government. OK?

HANNITY: Well, there's some truth to that. There's some truth to that.

KEYES: They saw the lack of action on many fronts, that had to do with the key issues of moral concern, and they're disappointed. These people don't trust the folks who are reinventing themselves —

HANNITY: But that doesn't answer my question, Ambassador.

KEYES: You know what I offer? I offer something that I —

HANNITY: I didn't ask you what you offered.

KEYES: You can go to my website —

HANNITY: Plug your website, now. Then I can ask you a question. But that wasn't my question. You didn't address my question.

KEYES: I did!

HANNITY: Every single Republican —

KEYES: I did. I did address your question. They won't perform. They won't back it up. I don't believe them, and neither do many others.

HANNITY: So, you are calling them liars. That was my question.

KEYES: I didn't say that.

HANNITY: If you don't believe them, you think they're lying.

KEYES: Excuse me. I said I don't believe them. You're saying I have to believe everything a politician says? I go buy a used car. I must believe everything the salesman says?

HANNITY: No, but if you also have a track record with people like — hang on. You have a track record with people with people like Rudy, and Mitt, and Fred Thompson.

KEYES: No, you don't.

HANNITY: Well, excuse me, you do. Because Rudy Giuliani did cut taxes twenty-six times in New York. Mitt Romney did cut them in Massachusetts.

KEYES: Yeah.

HANNITY: And Fred Thompson did support them, as senator from Tennessee.

KEYES: Right. The problem is, Sean, you're telling me that I should sell my soul for tax cuts, and I won't do that.

HANNITY: I'm not telling you — I'm not, no!

KEYES: But, Step Number One. My priority —

HANNITY: Wait a minute, Ambassador. My original question to you was, do you not see a difference between the leading candidates, and the leading Democratic candidates, and then I gave you distinctions. I said on taxes, winning in Iraq, offense on the war on terror, controlling our borders, and free market solutions to health care and socialized medicine.

KEYES: I see no distinction on Rudy Giuliani selling my soul to the devil on abortion, and Hillary Clinton doing it. I see no distinction between Mitt Romney, and Mike Huckabee, and these others promoting big government, socialized health care, and Hillary Clinton doing it. I see no distinction between Ron Paul promoting a "Blame America First, bring the troops home, let the chips fall where they may on our security" approach, and those being advocated by the Democrats.

So, if you want to know the truth, I look at this field, and I see every Democrat fault reflected in these candidates. None of them offers me a strong national security, a deeply principled moral policy, a limited government approach on fiscal responsibility, along with abolishing the Income Tax and the Fair Tax. No one is —

HANNITY: Well, Mike Huckabee supports the Fair Tax, for the record. Mike Huckabee does support the Fair Tax.

KEYES: I said, no. No one offers them all together.

HANNITY: Well, obviously, you want to distinguish yourself from them.

KEYES: None of them bring a conservative, coherent approach, and that's what people want.

HANNITY: Ambassador, where I see that your criticism is valid and correct, I do see that the Republicans that did take power had abandoned their principles, which is one of the main reasons I think they lost power in 2006.

KEYES: Yeah, I think so. That's true.

HANNITY: But I also think some politicians do keep their promises. I think Bush kept them, on his tax cuts. I think President Bush has been steadfast, resolute, principled, and strong, in the war on terror. He did make some mistakes in Iraq, but he's rectified those mistakes. Thirdly, he did keep his promise. I think both Samuel Alito and John Roberts are superb, strict constructionist, originalist justices, as he promised.

I'm not saying that every person is perfect. I disagree with him on Medicare prescription drugs, and on immigration comprehensive reform, and on Dubai Ports and Harriet Myers.

KEYES: Yeah.

HANNITY: But, compared to what the Democrats were offering in John Kerry, it was a better choice. Similarly, I think every Republican candidate, I think, on taxes, on winning the war in Iraq, on staying on offense on the war on terror, and securing our borders, and free market solutions on health care —

KEYES: Can I now say something?

HANNITY: No. The difference between you and me is, I see the difference.

KEYES: Sean?


KEYES: You know the slogan that people need to keep in mind, now?

HANNITY: What's that?

KEYES: They're being told a lie, and this lie is they must sell their souls for money, or they must —

HANNITY: Who's talking about selling their souls for money? What are you talking about?

KEYES: You talked a lot, and now you won't let me finish a sentence.

HANNITY: What are you talking about, selling their souls?

KEYES: Excuse me. Excuse me. The slogan that is needed, Sean, is a very simple one. You can have it all. OK? That the grassroots, deeply committed, conservative, Reagan Republican base of the party — you can have it all, in a package that is most articulate, most experienced, most informed, and most capable. You can have it all.

HANNITY: You're saying, "Vote for me!"

KEYES: You can have it all. Go to, —

HANNITY: You know, we charge for these plugs, here, but we'll give it to you for free, because you're our guest.

KEYES: They can see it, 'cause my record proves it.

HANNITY: Ambassador, I like you a lot. I love your passion. I love your commitment. I agree with you on life. I agree with you on taxes. There are a lot of issues — I agree with you on many, many issues, here. I don't know what it is. Every time I speak to you, there's a certain stridency here, in a way that I think hurts you, here —

KEYES: Sean, this is talk radio, here, Sean —

HANNITY: Hey, wait. No, this is not talk radio. This is Alan Keyes and Sean Hannity having a discussion. You may not like what I say, but there is a stridency here —

KEYES: No, there isn't. Right now, I'm not being strident.

HANNITY: But you have been, in this interview.

KEYES: I'll tell you what I am. You know what I am, Sean?

HANNITY: What's that?

KEYES: I'm passionate.

HANNITY: I'm passionate, too.

KEYES: Hold it. I deeply believe — and I frankly think, if you're going to be president of the United States, and you're sending young men and women to risk and give their lives for the sake of our national principles and our national security and our national survival —

HANNITY: I agree with you.

KEYES: — and our national way of life, you'd better be deeply, deeply reverent and thoughtful about your understanding of those principles. You're asking them to give their all, and you'd better show that you will give your all. I think that's what's needed.

HANNITY: I think that President Bush has been steadfast in his support of these guys. Do you think President Bush has been passionate and steadfast, in his support of the troops?

KEYES: Well, let's put it this way. I think President Bush has been passionate and steadfast. I wish that President Bush had had folks around him who had been better capable of articulating both the cause and purpose of the war.

HANNITY: That's valid. I agree with that.

KEYES: I don't fault the president, in terms of his steadfastness, but I think the whole idea that we let it shift from security to nation-building was a huge mistake.

HANNITY: I'm going to say this, and the only thing I'm saying here, with the word stridency, I'm not saying there's a perfect, Reagan conservative, 'cause I consider myself a Reagan conservative, Ambassador, and I believe that you've got to stand up to and defeat evil in your time. I believe in stimulating the economy, because we are a nation — as you point out — endowed by its Creator, the natural state of mankind is one to live in liberty and freedom, so that we may self-actualize, and bring God's talents to fruition.

But, with that said, I see distinct differences between the Republican candidates that are running along with you, and what the Democrats are offering, and it seems that you offer them or cut them no slack. You give them no credit for their record on either taxes, or —

KEYES: Well, no.

HANNITY: Hang on — or, any of the positions that they have taken. For example, Fred Thompson has been pro-life, and has voted pro-life, his entire career.

KEYES: No, he has not. No, he's not. That is not a true statement.

HANNITY: Yes, he has been. That's a true statement.

KEYES: That's an untrue statement. Fred Thompson started out in 1994. He ran for his senate race on a pro-abortion position.

HANNITY: He has never had a single vote —

KEYES: Excuse me. He modified that position to a trimester, last trimester, first trimester Roe v. Wade position, and he's actually — as far as I can tell — actually not said anything about abortion itself that changes that position, and finally —

HANNITY: I would like to see the one vote —

KEYES: Sean, please. Finally, he takes a position on the abortion issue that takes it back to the states, which mean that he doesn't understand that the national principle on which our government is based, is destroyed if we say that abortion is a right. So, to say that he's pro-life is stretching a point.

HANNITY: Well, I disagree with his position about it going back to the states. I actually agree with you on the position. I think it ought to be abandoned, and I think Roe v. Wade has been and continues to be —

KEYES: Sean —

HANNITY: Let me finish, Ambassador! You interrupt more than any guest I've ever had.

KEYES: I have a question for you.

HANNITY: Go ahead. You be the host. Go ahead.

KEYES: No, I don't want to be the host. This is a heartfelt question, from me, you know, because I think we do agree on a whole lot of things, just like you agreed with McClintock and other people. When somebody like myself, who agrees with you on a lot of things, and who represents you, in point of fact — and I do it quite capably — stands up to run for office, why on earth would you not support us?

HANNITY: Ambassador, I've got to be honest. I like a lot of what you say. It is striking me wrong, the way you're saying it.

KEYES: You know, they used to say that about Reagan?

HANNITY: Well, hang on. Sir, you're not Ronald Reagan. You're Alan Keyes.

KEYES: I know I'm not. I'm just telling you that, in the days before the media mismayed (?), when Reagan was out in the wilderness being talked nastily about by Bush and Rockefeller Republicans —

HANNITY: I'm not talking nastily about you!

KEYES: — that's what they used to say about him.

HANNITY: Look, I'm just saying this, Ambassador —

KEYES: So, I'm in good company.

HANNITY: — at the end of the day, Ambassador, while Ronald Reagan had a likeability and a charm and an ability to build a consensus, and that was part of the reason he was so electable, which gave him the opportunity and the platform and the power of the presidency to accomplish as much as he did, wait, hang on, let me finish. That is a component in the political world. You have got to build a consensus, and I'm just saying, when you say that Jesus wouldn't vote for Obama, when you call people liars, when you attack everyone, as you have, and just dismiss them, the way you have in this interview, I think it hurts your —

KEYES: I didn't dismiss them, Sean.

HANNITY: You did dismiss them!

KEYES: I didn't dismiss them. I stated — I think, quite cogently — their inadequacies, and I wonder why it is you keep wanting, in the critical moment of this country's life, life or death at stake —

HANNITY: There are good things about —

KEYES: Life or death at stake, for our republic, for our border, for our national —

HANNITY: I agree that these are consequential times.

KEYES: — security, we need the best on all fronts if we're to survive.

HANNITY: But the difference, I think, is this, between your position and mine. I've interviewed every one of these men, including yourself, and you know what? They have accomplished many great things, although I have disagreements with practically every one of them, on some issues. They have many conservative points of view, although I have disagreements. You don't seem to be willing to acknowledge any of that. Fifteen seconds, and then we're out of time.

KEYES: Well, I acknowledge that this country needs somebody who's going to leave not fatal flaws exposed, because any one of them will destroy us.

HANNITY: Ambassador Alan Keyes, it's always a pleasure. Thank you for being with us.

KEYES: Thank you. Appreciate it, Sean.

HANNITY: Quick break. Right back. We'll continue.

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