August 17, 2004

TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: All right. I think we are headed out. He ran for president twice, now he is taking on an up and coming Democrat in the Senate race in Illinois. Republican Alan Keyes jumped into this political battle in land of Lincoln just over a week ago. The Democratic candidate, Barack Obama, declined an interview with us today. Alan Keyes will join us just a moment from Chicago. We will be right back.

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CARLSON: Welcome back. He's run for president twice. He's run for Senate twice. Alan Keyes, radio talk show host, one of the great orators of our time. You may recognize him. He's been co-opted, pulled into the Senate race in Illinois, up against Barack Obama as of last week--and he joins us now live from Chicago.

Ambassador Alan Keyes, welcome.

ALAN KEYES: Thank you very much. Glad to be here.

PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Good to see you again, Mr. Ambassador. Thank you for joining us. Let me begin with a rather harsh comment from one of your brother Republicans, Mike Murphy--one of the smartest strategists I know. He was campaign manager for John McCain, campaign strategist for Arnold Schwarzenegger. Here's what he says about you.

CLIP, MIKE MURPHY: "When voters listen to Alan Keyes, they get the perception, 'Wow, this guy is stone-cold nuts.' And they run home to hide their children. We Republicans are the free market party, so let's look to Keyes' prior history in elections and trust the market."

If that's what Republicans think about you, what are the Democrats going to say, Mr. Ambassador?

KEYES: Well, I've got to confess that quoting some pro-abortion Republican who is engaging in a fit of name-calling hardly constitutes a question worthy of respect. I think it's disgraceful that in the media these days, some people, not all, because I've been counting some pretty good people here in Illinois, but some people seem to think that casting a name-calling session in front of somebody constitutes asking a question. So I would simply say, "Where is the question in that?" I'll be glad to answer it when you ask one.

CARLSON: All right. I want to ask you question then, Ambassador Keyes. I take you serious, I take your ideas seriously, and I agree with most of them. So I was shocked the other day to see you give a press conference endorsing the idea of reparations for slavery, tax breaks for descendants of slavery. You said--pointing out that your opponent Barack Obama is not descended from slaves and you are. This struck me as a kind of essential betrayal of the beliefs you've been espousing in public for the last 20 years.

KEYES: Oh, not at all. I have taken a strong position against schemes of extortion from the fellow citizens of people here in America, based on the idea that somehow or another that would be requital for slavery--and I made clear over the years that I think the blood and treasure sacrifice during the Civil War constituted that requital.

But I have also made clear every time I was asked that there was objective damage done to black Americans by the slave system. And there have been frequent efforts in American history, not thus far successful, to address the wounds that were left by that legacy.

What I have laid on the table repeatedly is a thoroughly Republican, thoroughly conservative approach that is actually borrowed from ancient history in terms of what the Roman empire used to do to respond to damaged communities. You give them tax relief. You give them a tax break to make up for the fact, for instance, in this case, that black folks toiled for generations at what was effectively a hundred percent tax rate.

And by doing this, you unleash their enterprise. Give them an incentive to work. Give people an incentive to own businesses. Without taking a penny out of anybody else's pocket, you're able to create an environment where people are encouraged to work to put a strong foundation under themselves instead of putting money in a bureaucracy to dominate their lives that undermines the moral foundations of their family and destroys their economic incentives.

As a matter of fact, it's a thoroughly conservative, thoroughly consistent Republican approach to a very serious challenge.

BEGALA: If I could please ask you about a comment that you made just a couple of months ago. You were speaking in Utah, endorsing a candidate for governor there, and you said the following quote: "Now you think it's a coincidence that on September 11th, 2001, we were struck by terrorists, an evil that has at its heart the disregard of innocent human life."

You went on to say, "I don't think that's a coincidence. I think that's a shot across the bow. I think that's a way of Providence telling us, I love you all, I'd like to give you a chance. Wake up. Would you please wake up." You were, I think, saying that God wanted the September 11th attacks to occur. You can't have meant that, can you?

KEYES: What I was pointing out is an objective fact--and I know that folks like to run away from them--that at the heart of terrorism lies this principle of evil: a disregard for the claims of innocent human life. At the heart of abortion lies . . .

BEGALA: Do you believe God was sending us a message on September 11th? Mr. Ambassador.

KEYES: At the heart of abortion lies this principle: a disregard for the claims of innocent human life. If we go into a war against folks who are violating that principle, and stumble across the truth that we ourselves are violating it, consider the moral confusion, the demoralization that that represents in terms of our commitment . . .

BEGALA: So Providence was trying to tell us something?

KEYES: . . . to what is necessary in order to safeguard our security.

So, I think I am justified in pointing out that if we don't address the moral evil that's at the heart of abortion, we'll be in trouble.

BEGALA: [talking over] Instruments of God's will. They were God's messengers, were they?

CARLSON: Ambassador Keyes, throughout your career in public life, you've taken a pretty vigorous stand against Affirmative Action. You've taken a lot of flack for it--most of it pretty unfair, in my view. However, it seems clear to me that the Republican Party of Illinois is engaging in Affirmative Action by choosing you.

The two finalists for the job to replace Mr. Ryan who dropped out were both black. Now, there aren't a whole lot of black Republicans in Illinois, and so they go out of state to find you. I'm not saying you're not the best candidate, but I am saying it does seem to be a clear example of Affirmative Action and it seems to me to be patronizing. Don't you agree?

KEYES: Well, the unfortunate truth is that people don't listen to what I say, and I'm not surprised. I have never said that I'm against Affirmative Action. I have said that I am for Affirmative Action and against quotas. Affirmative Action is a Republican idea. It was invented under Richard Nixon. It was not intended to establish a quota.

Second point, I'm not involved in this race on account of race. When they came down to two final choices, they were both of them, Dr. Barthwell and myself, black Americans. They chose me because of my unique combination of qualities, the national reputation and base that I could bring to the race to challenge what the Democrats have tried to do with Barack Obama. That's clear.

CARLSON: Ambassador Keyes, I'm afraid we're completely out of time. I hope you'll join us when you win. Thanks a lot. Good luck.

KEYES: Surely will.

BEGALA: Thank you, Mr. Ambassador.