August 9, 2004

ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: And just 85 days left until John Kerry becomes president-elect of the United States, but the new race to watch is the Illinois Senate race, where former Ambassador Alan Keyes has stepped in as the new candidate for the Republican Party.

Ambassador Keyes joins us from Chicago tonight. Ambassador, thank you for being with us.

Let me play for you what you said here on Fox News in the year 2000 about Hillary Clinton moving to New York, becoming a candidate. I know you know the quote. Let's show it to our audience and get your response. Here it is.

CLIP OF ALAN KEYES: "I deeply resent the destruction of federalism represented by Hillary Clinton's willingness to go into a state she doesn't even live in and pretend to represent people there. So, I certainly wouldn't imitate it."

So, why is it not all right for her to do it, but it's OK for you to do it?

ALAN KEYES: Well, I was criticizing Hillary for not having proper respect for state sovereignty, for the principle of the integrity of representation in the states, and I still believe it's wrong for national figures to use the states as platforms for their personal ambition--and she did it in a very calculated way: planned it out, did it beforehand.

I don't think there's anything wrong with responding first to a decision that was made by the Illinois state Republicans and the grassroots that they needed help, any more than it was wrong for the people of New York to appeal for firefighters to come into the state and other people to and help them out when they faced a crisis during 9/11.

That's standard procedure for states to be able to decide that, and I'm simply responding to their draft. No personal agenda. I hadn't even thought of this until a week ago, and I had to be convinced of the real need.

Second, there's a deep issue of principle that divides me from Barack Obama. The great principles of our national integrity are at stake, and even Lincoln, the great statesman from Illinois, made it clear: when those principles are threatened, state sovereignty has to give way to our defense of the principles of our national union.

COLMES: Some would say your answer is "Clintonesque." I wouldn't say that, but some Republicans would . . .

KEYES: No, they wouldn't.

COLMES: . . . that you're splitting hairs, you have a different standard, based on what you said about Hillary Clinton when she--she'd already moved to New York and then decided to run for the Senate. You're not yet living in Illinois and you blasted her for representing people from another state.

KEYES: I did. And I blast her still.

I believe--and what's clear, Alan, sadly--I just made an argument. You have to respond to that argument, not just sort of dismiss it out of hand, because it's clear and it's actually valid and correct.

We have in Illinois a challenge that the people of Illinois believe would result in having someone--who has abandoned the principles that Lincoln fought for as the foundation of America's conscience--enter the Senate representing the Land of Lincoln, and they have called on me to defend those principles against this, just as Lincoln defended our national principles against Stephen Douglas when he was pushing for extension of slavery into the states, which would also have been the destruction of our national principles.

SEAN HANNITY, CO-HOST: Ambassador, what do you think about your opponent?

KEYES: Well, I thought, given all the hype, that there was some substance there. Today, however, after saying he wanted six debates, that he'd debate anybody that the Republicans put up, I'm told today he had a press conference, somebody told me now he wants to reduce it to two, ah, to four. I was just told it was two. He says and claims, and everybody claims, he has such national stature and ability.

I step onto the scene, and he's running for the ropes at the side of the arena.

It seems to me we may have a situation here of all hype and no handle. We've got somebody who's like the Wizard of Oz in the famous picture: big head projected by the media, full of hype, sound, and glory, but when it comes down to it, he doesn't want to face the test.

HANNITY: Yeah.

You feel confident, in a debate situation you'd win?

KEYES: Well, the truth of the matter is, if you want to go to the Senate of the United States against the most capable people for presenting and articulating issues, you'd better be prepared for the national arena. And if you're not prepared for the national arena, you're not going to be capable of representing the people of Illinois.

I have stood in that arena toe-to-toe with the best, and I have shown that I'm not going to run for the sidelines when the goin' gets tough. I'm going to stand there and make the case for the people of Illinois.

He has to prove he can do the same thing.

HANNITY: You say the area of vulnerability he has is on gun rights and on abortion. Aren't the two driving issues for all states national security, the War on Terror, and the economy?

KEYES: You don't listen, I think, sometimes, folks in the media. This is what I don't understand. I did not say . . .

HANNITY: I listen very well, Alan.

KEYES: Can I answer please?

HANNITY: Yes.

KEYES: I didn't say that the "key issues," in some horserace, political sense, were gun control and so forth. What I said was that he and I are divided on the deep issue of principle which is at the heart of the national integrity of this country, and that that issue of principle and the defense of those principles was the reason that I, abiding by a true understanding of federalism, have come forward to defend those national principles.

The motto of Illinois is "state sovereignty, national union." When the national union is threatened, state sovereignty gives way, and I responded to the people of the state in that spirit.

HANNITY: Was it wrong what they did to the prior candidate Jack Ryan by suing? His wife didn't want those records made public, he didn't want those records made public. I think an argument can be made that his child is affected. Was that wrong to do?

KEYES: I absolutely think it was. I do not understand why the judge would make a decision, after he had appointed a special investigator to look into it on behalf of the child's interest, why he would reach the conclusion those records should be released. It was incomprehensible, I think.

COLMES: We're just out of time. We, I'm sure, will talk again as the campaign progresses.

We'd also like to note that we invited the Democratic candidate for Senate, Barack Obama, to appear on this program. He declined our invitation. We hope he will at some point come on.