July 1, 2004

DOUG WRIGHT, HOST: He's going to be in Utah coming up on Monday. He will headline a "One Nation Under God" rally Monday, July 5th, at the McKay Events Center in Orem. The rally is part of the day-long Family Freedom Fair celebrating America's religious heritage. We're talking about Alan Keyes, who is here on the line with us. Mr. Keyes, it's always a pleasure to welcome you to the Doug Wright Show here at KSL.

ALAN KEYES: It's always a pleasure to be with you. How are you today?

WRIGHT: Doing great. Thank you. It's been a while since we've talked. What have you been up to?

KEYES: Well, I've been heavily involved, in fact, in the movement to organize believers around the country to assert our right, not only to believe in God, but to act on that belief as citizens and to try to do something about what has been now, I think, a determined assault in the courts, particularly at the federal level, to deprive the citizens of this country of the right to acknowledge God in our public life and institutions.

WRIGHT: Isn't it interesting to watch what has unfolded over the last little while--and even though it was a victory in the Supreme Court on the Pledge of Allegiance, and the "in God we trust," you know, some of those types of things, you know, "one nation under God," it was still a lame victory because it was just a victory on a technicality.

KEYES: Well, it actually wasn't a victory at all. I, myself, wouldn't call it that. It was simply a signal from the Court that they understand that people are very upset, and they didn't want to make this decision before the election.

WRIGHT: [laughs]

KEYES: I think it is clear that they are determined to take God out of the Pledge. There is a majority for that. That is what I read between the lines of the opinion. The other disturbing thing was the basis for that opinion was in fact a slap in the face of God's authoritative establishment of the family--because they essentially took Newdow (I'm no friend of his, because he's an atheist and all of that, but he is a father), and they said that despite the biological ties and natural connection with his daughter, he had no standing in our courts to take an interest in her moral welfare. I thought it was a diabolical decision, in fact, because they put themselves in a position superior to God, and said, "We'll give you a reprieve, God, but don't think we respect Your authority, because we don't."

WRIGHT: That decision was flawed all the way around, but on the other hand, you look at the mother who indeed did have custody of the child who was really fearful of the fact that her daughter would be held up almost like the name "Roe" in Roe vs. Wade--she would be the name that would be associated with this landmark decision, when her child had no problem at all with reciting the Pledge of Allegiance with reference to Deity, nor did the mother, and that was just an unbelievable situation.

KEYES: Well, see, but what the Court should have done was address the issue on its merits.

WRIGHT: Yeah.

KEYES: Which they refused to do, but instead made a technical judgment that essentially declared invalid in the courts of the United States any claim to parental authority that arises from the biological tie. Think about that. That is actually a signal, as well, that these courts are in a complete assault against the God-given, natural basis of family life in this country. They mean to destroy it--and that is what their decisions have portended, with Lawrence [vs. Texas] and other things like this.

They also mean, of course, through other decisions, to deprive us of the right to acknowledge God in our laws, in our public places, in our institutions, so a country founded on the belief that our rights come from God will now be a country in which we can't appeal to God when we make arguments with respect to those rights.

WRIGHT: Alan, how far do you think this is going to go? When we do have--and I hate to get back in the old domino comparison, but that is a good comparison--when that first domino falls, if it does, I hope it doesn't, but I mean, are we going to take it off our money, are we going to take it out of salutations in the court, are we going to take it off of, almost like old Pharaoh striking Moses' name, are we going to take it off the pillars, are we going to take it off the streets?

KEYES: Absolutely. A matter of fact, the dominos have already fallen. They started falling when we took prayer out of the schools and Bible study out of the classroom, and so forth and so on. And this is the culmination of several decades of assault on the right of the people to acknowledge God in their public affairs, and so forth--and, yes, it'll end up with a requirement that takes the Bible verse off the Liberty Bell. They have already made it clear in court decisions that you can't acknowledge these things as Bible verses. In the motto for the state of Ohio, "With God, all things are possible," I was just the other day with Ken Blackwell, the secretary of state there, who made the point that the only way they were able to defend that in the courts was by not mentioning that it comes from Matthew [19:26].

WRIGHT: Yeah.

KEYES: You see? So, if it's clear what the source is, the courts have already declared that to be invalid.

And, by the way, on a basis, the federal courts have no authority in this area whatsoever. If you look in the Constitution, their claim of authority and this notion that separation is somewhere in the Constitution is simply, plainly, a lie. It is not in any way present in the Constitution of the United States. What's present there is a prohibition against federal interference and dictation on the subject of church-state relations, and instead of acknowledging that and not overstepping their authority, the courts are dictating to the state and local government what they shall do.

WRIGHT: Anybody who reads the history of this nation, the real history of this nation, goes back to the original documents, goes back to the writings of the original Founding Fathers, there was no intent--as a matter of fact, John Adams built it in to so many, including the Constitution of the Common Wealth of Massachusetts. Anybody who reads that document, which is still in effect today, having been revised many times and amended many times, but read the original version of what John Adams wrote, the first real functioning constitution and the longest functioning democratic constitution in the world today, and you look at that, there was no intent to excise religion out of our society. He built it into our society.

KEYES: Well, no, it was quite the opposite, that they had come over from Europe in the first place in order to escape the wars in Europe and the persecutions that were aimed at preventing people from being able to live in communities where the laws reflected their faith and conscience. It was that liberty, to live in communities governed by laws that respect God's authority, that was in fact asserted by the people who founded the American colonies like Massachusetts.

And, of course, they had, when the First Amendment was passed, there were established religions in most of the states at that time, and the First Amendment was put in there in order to make it clear that the national government, the federal government, in any if its branches, did not have the right to interfere with the decision of the people in the states on this matter.

And so, what the courts have done is they have stood the intention and purpose of the First Amendment on its head to claim the very power it was meant to deny to them.

WRIGHT: I keep wondering, again, how far this is going to go. Every state, at least that I'm aware of--and I've read almost all the preambles, at least, when all of this issue of reference to Deity, and so on, was such a hot topic several months ago when it was before the court, and you look at the preambles of virtually every state constitution, including ours here in the state of Utah, it makes reference to Deity.

So, I mean, what are we going to do? Are we going to go back, are we going to tell every state, I mean, ours, at least . . .

KEYES: Well, yes. They mean to deprive the people of their appeal to God's authority. In our . . .

WRIGHT: Now, see, ours opens this way, it opens, "Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we, the people of Utah, in order to secure and perpetuate the principles of free government, do ordain and establish this constitution."

"Grateful to Almighty God" is the opening statement.

KEYES: Well, but, think about that. The whole premise of our way of life is that we are "created equal and endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights."

WRIGHT: That's right.

KEYES: We mustn't think of this as just an assault on religion. It's an assault on the very foundations of our claim to rights, the very foundations of constitutional government in this country. Remove God, and you remove the claim of the people to equal right and to participation in their own political affairs.

WRIGHT: You know, that's an interesting way to look at it, because if you do [remove God], it totally undermines what Jefferson wrote as being the moral high ground for separating ourselves from King George.

KEYES: Well, it undermines the whole basis of self-government in this country, what our Founders saw as representative republican government.

WRIGHT: But I mean specifically, specifically. I mean, the Declaration of Independence is basically a list of grievances against King George. So, I mean, it undermines that entire document, because, as you said, it's totally based on the assumption that God has given us these unalienable rights.

KEYES: Well, and also you can see the destruction of our constitutional system by the means with which this is coming about. Courts are dictating the law. Now, under our system, you're supposed to have a separation of powers. The laws are to be made by the legislature, not the court.

The courts, in order to drive God from our public precincts, are claiming the power to dictate the law to the representatives of the people. That's what they are doing in Massachusetts. So, at the very same time they assault the foundation in principle of our claims to self-government, the means they use is a destruction of our constitutional system--and that is not an accident, by the way.

So, I think that we are in that time when the critical decisions are being made that are bringing our republic down. It is being destroyed. This is not future-oriented. It's happening now, and I think that destruction will in principle be complete in the next couple of years, if we can't stop this wholesale assault on God as the foundation of liberty that's going on through our courts in the abuse of the judicial power.

WRIGHT: What do you think will be that straw that will break the back of rank-and-file, mom-and-pop, patriotic, God-fearing Americans? Will it be when the court finally is forced into a corner and has to, or feels that it has to, come out and excise God from various documents and so on?

KEYES: Well, I think, for a lot of people, that point has already been reached. I think that the most profound assault, and the one that seems to be disturbing people, especially in the community of believers, is the assault on the family.

WRIGHT: Yeah.

KEYES: Most people in this country understand that once you have destroyed the right basis and true basis of marriage and the family, you have destroyed the building block of the society--of its liberty, of its dignity, and of its morality.

And that's what the courts have already done in the Lawrence decision, and that's what is now being followed up on in decisions like the one taken by the Massachusetts court, that is forcing same-sex marriage on a reluctant people, because the majority of people in the state don't want it and understand that it is wrong.

So, I think these issues are already coming to a head. It's why we're having a rally in October, we're going to call on believers from all over the country to come to Washington, D.C., to join in a week of prayer and repentance, culminating in a big rally on October the 22nd. We're getting the kind of response that indicates that people realize that these folks have already crossed the line. People are already upset, they are already deeply involved and concerned with the destruction of the moral foundations of our freedom, and I think they are getting involved.

WRIGHT: We look forward to having you come to the state of Utah. I want to mention to those who are listening right now and would like to hear Mr. Keyes and others, this will happen here in Utah on Monday, July 5th, at the McKay Events Center in Orem. This is part of a day-long Family Freedom Fair celebrating America's religious heritage. By the way, all the events that day are free and open to the public.

When will you actually arrive in Utah, Alan?

KEYES: Ah, well, I think I will get there actually on Monday, itself, early in the day, I believe, and then I will stay, I will be doing an event that's commemorative of Ronald Reagan--I think they're having a panel discussion talking about the legacy of the Reagan years--and then I will be speaking at the rally. We're hoping that folks will turn out. Obviously, Utah is one of those states where you have a strong core of decent, believing people, and I know that a lot the folks there, because I was just there recently for the Republican state convention, I know a lot of people are concerned about these issues, and I certainly hope they will join us to manifest this heart, as we prepare to bring people together in Washington.

We're having these rallies around the country as a step toward mobilizing people for the October event.

WRIGHT: Do we have a firm date in October yet?

KEYES: Well, the week that's in question is the week between the 15th and the 22nd. I think it will kick off with a rally that's specifically aimed at the issue of marriage, and then it will culminate in a "God and country" rally on the 22nd, and every day in between, people will be gathering to pray and seek repentance before God on specific areas of our national life where we have these deficiencies--following the biblical injunction to pray and repent and then seek God's help in dealing with these matters, and that's what we'll be doing.

WRIGHT: Where in Washington, on the Mall?

KEYES: On the Mall, on the Mall.

WRIGHT: Yeah. Wow.

KEYES: Things will be going on, and we really hope that, given the critical time we're in, this is really a time for believing people to stop praying just with their lips and pray also with their feet, and with their hearts moving together, to manifest their concern and bear witness to the truth on behalf of this country. I think we are called upon as believers who understand the absolute foundation of justice in God's will, to stand up and restore that foundation on behalf of our country. It's really a work of mercy for our nation as a whole.

WRIGHT: We certainly appreciate you joining us today. We look forward to you being in Utah, and hopefully before October we'll be able to talk again. We'd love to have you back soon.

KEYES: I'd love to be back. Thank you.

WRIGHT: Thank you so much for joining us today here at KSL Newsradio 1160 on the Doug Wright Show, Alan Keyes--he'll be in Utah on Monday, and, again, it's always interesting to talk with Alan Keyes on this program. We always welcome him.