Judge Roy Moore
November 14, 2003

SEAN HANNITY: Yesterday, Chief Justice Roy Moore was kicked off the bench by a judicial panel. They rejected Judge Moore's argument that he was upholding his oath when he ignored a federal court order to remove a Ten Commandments monument from the rotunda of the Alabama courthouse.

He joins us now from Birmingham. I guess now former Alabama Chief Justice. Mr. Chief Justice, are you upset? I assume you are.

ROY MOORE: Well, it's never pleasant to lose your job, let me put it that way.

HANNITY: Yeah. But you knew going in. I mean, because we interviewed you a lot. We interviewed you before this all came down. On principle, you knew from the beginning this could be a possibility, and you knew what the consequences might be.

MOORE: Well, I did. Sean, I knew that to acknowledge God as a public official today creates a dangerous situation--and that's unfortunate in our country which is established upon the acknowledgment of God and of the laws of nature and nature's God.

HANNITY: Yeah. Ah, I got a lot of e-mail. You were on my radio show this week, and I got a lot of e-mail saying, "Run, Roy, run." They want you to run for either governor, Senate, Congress. You certainly have a lot of name recognition in Alabama. Is that a consideration at this point, or do you have plans to try and get this job back?

MOORE: Well, I haven't considered any other office, political office, at this time. I'm rather disillusioned with politics presently.

HANNITY: Yeah.

MOORE: And I still have an option of appeal in this case, so I'll consider that with my attorneys in the near future.

HANNITY: The Southern Poverty--what?--Law Center, I believe, is trying to get you disbarred?

MOORE: Well, they want to take it a step further. I think it's more than just . . . maybe it's a pound of flesh to them.

HANNITY: It's time to what? I didn't hear that.

MOORE: Pound of flesh.

HANNITY: So, what do they want? What are they looking for?

MOORE: They want more than just my removal, they want to keep me from any opportunity to run again or to become Chief Justice again.

ALAN COLMES: Hey, Chief Justice, it's Alan Colmes. Thank you for being with us tonight.

MOORE: Thank you, Alan. Nice to be with you.

COLMES: Thank you, sir. You know, a lot of people were with you all the way with this, including the Attorney General of your state, Attorney General Pryor. But it was when you defied a court order that you lost his support and the support of others. Do you see that as a dividing line between--I mean, a lot of people really agreed with you in principle, but felt that a chief justice, or any American, should not be defying a court order.

MOORE: Well, defying a court order is necessary when that court order is unlawful, and you're there sworn to uphold the rule of law. The rule of law is above judges--and when a federal district judge doesn't know how to define the words in the statute, then all he can do is rule according to his feelings and predilections, and then he makes law rather than interprets law. And that's what happened in this case.

COLMES: Here you are a judge, sir, saying the rule of law is above judges. So, if people in your courtroom had that attitude, wouldn't you have a problem with enforcement if that were the attitude of people in your courtroom?

MOORE: No, the attitude of the people in my courtroom would be to obey an order. But if that order were unlawful, they could commit civil disobedience, because the rule of law is not what a judge says, the rule of law is the Constitution and the words, and if it plainly disputes the statute, then it can't be the rule of law.

I'll give you an example, if I may, that if you were walking down by a creek and you picked up a stick, and you were brought before a magistrate for fishing without a license, and the magistrate said, "I can't define fishing, but I think that you have a stick, and even though you don't have a hook, line, or sinker, you could beat the fish in the head with that stick and you could kill it. Therefore, I'm going to fine you for fishing and give you sixty days in jail and $500," he wouldn't be ruling according to law, he would be making his own law. He's bound by the rule of law.

HANNITY: We'll continue with former Chief Justice Roy Moore right after this quick break here. You are watching the network America trusts. We're real journalism, we're fair, we're balanced--and thank you for being with us.

[break]

COLMES: Welcome back to Hannity & Colmes. I'm Alan Colmes, reporting from Dallas tonight with Chief Justice, or former Chief Justice, Roy Moore of the Alabama Supreme Court.

You've continually said, Chief Justice, that you were not allowed to acknowledge God. But isn't it an issue of not being allowed to acknowledge in a particular way? When one goes into court and, you know, puts up the right hand and says, "Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, so help me God," God's name does come up, God can be acknowledged. You could say a private prayer if you wanted. You could wear a cross around your neck. God could be acknowledged. In fact, you were given the opportunity to have this [monument] in your chambers, if you wanted it, but not in the rotunda.

MOORE: Alan, it was about acknowledging God. In that you bring that up, you know, this trial was held more or less out of the public view. There were no cameras allowed into the courtroom, and there was a reason for that. The only camera that was allowed was to record the judgment. But during the trial, people could not see what went on. I happen to have a transcript of what was asked of me by the Attorney General [Bill Pryor].

Listen to his question: "Mr. Chief Justice, in your understanding, is it the federal court ordered that you could not acknowledge God? Isn't that right?"

I said, "Yes."

[He said,] "And if you resume your duties as Chief Justice after this proceeding, you will continue to acknowledge God as you have testified that you would today?"

My answer was, "That's right."

He said, "No matter what any other official says?"

I said, "Absolutely. Without--let me clarify that--without an acknowledgment of God, I cannot do my duties. I must acknowledge God. It says so in the Constitution of Alabama, it says so in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. It says so in everything I've read."

[He said,] "The only I am trying to clarify, Mr. Chief Justice, is not why, but only that, in fact, if you do resume your duties as Chief Justice, you will continue to do that without regard to what any other official says. Isn't that right?"

And I said, "I must."

HANNITY: Judge, we've only got thirty seconds. I want to ask you, what effort are they undertaking, the Southern Poverty Law Center? You said they want a pound of flesh. Is there anything they could do that would prevent you from being able to run for another office?

MOORE: Well, if they take away your law license, they would prevent you from running for a judicial office. Yes.

HANNITY: And are you concerned about that?

MOORE: Well, I'm not concerned about it because every lawyer takes his oath, ending "so help me God," and he swears to uphold the Constitution of the United States. The Constitution states . . .

COLMES: Chief Justice, we're just out of time, sir. We're just out of time. I'll talk to you later on radio tonight.

MOORE: Thank you.