August 19, 2003

HANNITY: It's an honor, a privilege, and a pleasure to invite back to our microphones--it's been a while--former Ambassador to the United Nations Alan Keyes.

You were U.N. Ambassador, correct?

KEYES: I was Ambassador to the United Nations Economic and Social Council. I worked with Jeane Kirkpatrick.

HANNITY: How are you doing? It's been forever now. How are you doing? It's been a while.

KEYES: Oh, I'm doing pretty well.

HANNITY: I understand you're out doing a lot of speaking around the country--or?

KEYES: I've been doing a lot of speaking, yes. I've been trying to get some writing done. Trying to bolster support and take an interest in a lot of the things I believe in and care about.

HANNITY: We're going to get to this Judge Moore issue in just a second. I want to get your take on it. We have two acts of terror that have taken place today. We now can confirm 20 dead in Israel. This attack just, oh, an hour and a half ago--including children and women. And then we had the attack earlier today, U.N. headquarters in Baghdad. What are your thoughts?

KEYES: Well, I think with respect to the attack on Israel, it simply punctuates the truth of the matter--which is that this whole process which has envisaged some kind of, I don't know, truce and so forth and so on, is actually, I think, ill-fated and a bad idea.

We are engaged in a war against terror. We aren't going to be able to achieve progress and peace until the terrorist infrastructure is utterly destroyed. That's the case in the Middle East, and it's the case for us, as we face the threat of global terrorism.

The notion that you can somehow find negotiations in the midst of this means that you're negotiating with the terrorists. And that simply emboldens them to do more terror, and to do worse terror--which is exactly what we're seeing.

HANNITY: Hasn't that been the reaction, though, historically--even from this administration? Haven't we sent mixed signals that, you know, "Oh, I know you've been attacked, but please try and go back to the negotiating table?" I mean, right now, as we come on the air, Hamas and Islamic Jihad are actually fighting to get credit for the murder of these children, that took place today.

KEYES: Well, see, I have been a long-standing critic of this whole approach. I think that Secretary Powell is an incompetent, that he has continually led this country down the wrong path in his policies, that his willingness to try to put together a structure that actually rewards terrorists for their terrorism--with so-called "reciprocal steps"--as if they and their victims are on equal standing. It's dangerous. And it is now costing lives.

We should not have embarked upon this path. We should have made it clear to everyone involved, on every side, that the first order of business is to stop the terrorists, to make war (as Abbas has said he is not willing to do) on the terrorist elements--whether they be among the Palestinians, or elsewhere in the world.

HANNITY: Does that mean the United States should join military forces with Israel in the fight against terror? Against Islamic Jihad, Hamas, and Hezbollah?

KEYES: Frankly, I don't think the Israelis have shown any particular need of our help in dealing with that element of the terrorist infrastructure that they face. I think the only thing that what I am saying implies is, that we would stop brow-beating them into a position where we're actually getting them to lay off of the terrorist infrastructure, to release prisoners, give it a chance to recruit its strength once again.

In a case like this, I think it's like dealing with an infection in the body. You have to keep administrating the desired remedy until the infection has been eliminated. If you stop too soon, it reemerges.

HANNITY: Dr. Alan Keyes is with us. Are you watching the on-going attacks by the Democratic leadership--and more specifically, those that are running for president--against just about everything this president does in the battle in the war on terror? And how should he respond to it?

KEYES: Well, I think that, in the first instance, we need to keep our focus on the fact that we are fighting for the security of this county, that we were heinously attacked, that we are continually under threat--and that in terms of our security, we have to take the steps that are necessary to attack the terrorists where they live, where they develop their strength, where they get their support. We shouldn't be sitting on our hands waiting for them to kill Americans, and then responding.

And I think that proactive approach, in which we make it clear that we take the war to the enemy to prevent harm, if we can, to the American people, is the right approach, in spite of all criticism we need to contend with.

HANNITY: Now, you were at this big rally for Judge Moore in Alabama over the weekend, as I understand it. I was going to and make it myself--I had other obligations, was with my family. Here, I guess tomorrow, is D-Day on this decision, and he is not going to remove the Ten Commandments, as he has been so ordered. What is the next process?

KEYES: I think that first we have to understand what's really going on, though. Because Judge Moore, the Chief Judge of the state of Alabama, has put a monument out with the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Ten Commandments, and a federal judge has ordered him to take it down.

The first question that we need to be asking ourselves is, on what basis does he issue this order? People are somehow saying that if Judge Moore doesn't listen to this judge, he's breaking the law. What law?

If a judge issues an order that has no foundation in the law or in the Constitution, on what basis is he to be obeyed? Just because he's a judge?

The truth of the matter is, if we take that approach, then judges are tyrants in America who can do whatever they please without any justification in law, constitution, or a fact. And that is not where we live, I hope, under some kind of judicial tyranny--which is what Jefferson feared would happen of you allowed judges to get away with what this judge is doing. There's no basis in the Constitution for what he is demanding. None whatsoever.

And there never has been.

HANNITY: I agree with you, and I agree with Judge Moore--Chief Justice Moore. Do you think he's going to be put in jail?

KEYES: Well, if he's going to be put in jail, I'll be there with him. Because many of us--and this is what I would like, especially, to say to people out there today. Many people all over the country, everywhere I travel, everywhere I go, I give speeches, folks come up and say, "That's it. That's what I believe. The moral foundations." They're trying to rip the Ten Commandments from the heart of this country. It is the final stage in decades of assault on the moral foundations of America.

And if they get away with it in Alabama--the buckle of the Bible-belt--they will be emboldened to do it everywhere in this country.

It is time that we looked them in the eye and told them we won't stand for it--and there's only one way to do it. We should all of us be going to Montgomery, Alabama. I will be there. Supposedly, this comes to a head in the course of the next 24-48 hours, if there's not a stay. And I've already made arrangements to be there, to join with folks who will be putting our bodies in the way of this unlawful action.

It should not be tolerated. At some point, the people of this country have to get on their hind legs and say "no" to those who are attempting to destroy our constitutional religious liberty.

HANNITY: Now, we're going to have you on TV tomorrow night. Are you going to be in Montgomery? Or are you going to be in Washington? Or, you don't know yet?

KEYES: I don't know yet. I was just on the phone with Rick Scarborough of Vision America. There are folks there on the spot, and I think a deadline comes tomorrow. There may be a stay in it. If not, I am placing things in readiness to go back, because I think that this is it.

I encounter so many people, Sean, who say, "How did we get here? How did we let this happen?" and so forth and so on. And I'll tell you how we let it happen. We let it happen because we laid down and took it. Because these individuals, with no basis in the Constitution--and here's where I think we need to discuss this thoroughly and carefully. This judge's order, and any order like it, past or future, has no Constitutional basis whatsoever. They are acting in a lawless fashion. They are fabricating a doctrine that is nowhere to be found in the Constitution of the United States.

And a matter of fact, it runs clean contrary to what is to be found in the document: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." You know what they always say about that, Sean? They say, "Well, that means Congress can't establish a religion." No. It means Congress can't deal with the issue at all, in any way--not to establish, and not to interfere with what the state governments do with respect to this question.

And that was the plain intention, clear on the historical record, of the people who put that amendment in place: that the federal government would have no lawful basis whatsoever for interfering with the judgments and decisions of the people in their state governments on this matter.

That being the case, where does this judge get his basis for taking this action? There isn't one.

HANNITY: What do you want people to do? When should they go down there to be with you?

KEYES: Right now. They could go down, starting--there are folks right now who will be launching a prayer vigil starting at 7:00 tomorrow night. And I think anybody within the sound of my voice who cares, who really cares, who isn't just paying lip service to the moral future of this country, if they could possibly get there--in Alabama, in the neighboring states--they need to come to the capitol of Alabama, and join with those who are launching the prayer vigil at the Supreme Court here.

HANNITY: I'll tell you what we're going to do here to help support you, Dr. Keyes, if you'd like. Well, first of all, you're going to be on TV with us tomorrow. If you're going to go down there, while you're down there, why don't you check in with us every day, and you can update us and let us know what's going on, and give people more information? How's that?

KEYES: I will do my best. I surely will.

HANNITY: OK.

KEYES: And I hope that folks realize the significance of this. Americans, especially people who understand the importance of the moral basis of this country--we've been taking things for granted for too long. We have reached the final stage here. There is nothing further they can do, once they have, as this judge says, told the state governments that the people of the United States, through their state governments, have no right to show reverence for God. That's what he said.

Hannity: Well, I'll tell you what. We'll have you on both TV and radio tomorrow, if we can work it out. Definitely on TV. And we're going to continue to monitor your involvement in this, and we'll have Judge Moore on, probably sometime tomorrow, too. So we'll continue to follow this situation. But listen, it's been a long time since we've had you on. We've missed having you on. Dr., Ambassador, Alan Keyes on the program. And we'll see you on TV, either from Washington or from Alabama tomorrow night.

KEYES: OK.

HANNITY: Thank you, Dr. Keyes.