January 16, 2000

TONY SNOW: The official kickoff of the 2000 campaign will take place a week from tomorrow with the Iowa caucuses. Republican candidates met yesterday for a final pre-vote debate. We're joined now by half the Republican field: Alan Keyes, Gary Bauer and Orrin Hatch. Joining the questioning: Brit Hume, Washington managing editor of FOX NEWS.

Mr. Bauer, the conventional wisdom is those who are not in the top three will not move on after Iowa. Do you agree?

BAUER: Well, I'm hoping to be in the top three, obviously, but I don't agree, at least as far as my candidacy is concerned.

I think a lot of the media has missed the, kind of, grass-roots base we've built. I've got 145,000 people that have donated to my campaign. We've got the highest percentage of women supporting our campaign than any other candidate in the race. I intend to take this all the way to the convention in Philadelphia. I believe I'm going to get the nomination, and while I enjoy debating my colleagues, I can't wait to debate Al Gore.

SNOW: Mr. Bauer, you're a man known for your probity. Do you serious think you're going to win the nomination? And if so, how? How do you beat George W. Bush?

BAUER: Well, look, six months ago we were being told this was a one-man race, that George Bush had it wrapped up and why doesn't all the rest of us just go away. Governor Bush has already spent about $30 million of that war chest of his. He's gone down in the states that he's campaigned in. He's lower in Iowa, lower in New Hampshire than he was when he started. I hope he'll campaign more places if there's a relationship between him campaigning and him dropping in the polls.

And I think voters are just now beginning to pay attention. I think this thing's wide open.

On issues like China, Governor Bush agrees with Bill Clinton. I'll take most-favored-nations status away from China. On the abortion issue, Governor Bush won't give a straight answer, so I think he's in trouble.

HUME: Ambassador Keyes, let me ask you the same question basically that Tony asked: If you don't make it into the top three in Iowa, can you go on, and will you?

KEYES: I have continually rejected the sort of horse-race notions that media folks like to apply to our politics. The business of politics is to stand before people and offer a choice you believe is best for this country. People can't have a chance you don't offer to them. And so, as long as there are folks out there at the grass roots putting together a campaign to allow me to present the right alternative to people around this country, I will go on doing so.

HUME: Senator Hatch, is . . .

KEYES: I think that that has to be the end result.

And I sort of resent, by the way, the notion--I mean, you all are talking about underdogs and all these assumptions. You don't even look at your own phony polls. I'm running third in this country now, nationwide--in the Zogby poll, the "Newsweek" poll--all of this junk you pretend to take so seriously. And in Iowa...

HUME: Well, if you think it's junk then why are you...

KEYES: Excuse me--let me finish.

HUME: ... why are you quoting it back to us?

KEYES: Because you are supposed to be measured by the standards you claim to be employing and you don't really employ those standards. You make up your mind in a prejudiced way and won't even look at the things you claim are your basis for judgment.

KEYES: So I think you need to be careful here. I don't know who underdogs are until the people go to the polls. We will see about that. I've won all the debates, in terms of people's perception. The highlight of that debate for most people watching wasn't Bush and McCain, it was Alan Keyes, but you folks even in your news report just now, lie about things like that. It's not right.

HUME: Well, let's let you project what's going to happen. If the grass- roots support you say is being demonstrated is real, presumably you'll win the Iowa caucus and the New Hampshire primary. Do you forecast that?

KEYES: We will, we will see what happens. Given all the disadvantages that somebody like me labors--disadvantages rather, somebody like me, labors under, I think that if I show at all, it's a wonderful performance.

HUME: All right.

KEYES: Obviously even the phony polls you all put together, where quite often my name is rejected as an answer by the pollsters, and all these other techniques are used, even there I am now showing at third in the state of Iowa.

So I think we'll just have to watch and see what the voters say. And we ought to right now be talking about issues, instead of this horse race garbage.

HUME: Senator Hatch, same question to you. I'm sorry to disobey the injunction here to ask about issues, there'll be time.

It was striking that your 28-minute infomercial, so to speak, was not about you versus the rest of the Republican field, it was devoted almost entirely to your criticism of the administration, against which you are not yet running.

Is that a sign that this is your, sort of, effort to say something definitive on behalf of whoever gets nominated because you don't think it's going to be you?

HATCH: Well, let's be honest about it. I'm the only one who really has the experience to do the job. You know, these other people are all promising, making promises after promises.

HUME: So if you finish--if you don't finish in the top three, you going to go ahead?

HATCH: Well, you know, right now, let's face it, if I can finish in the top four I'd be doing very well. If not, we'll have to look at it.

But let me say this, you know, we're talking about experience versus inexperience here. I'm not just 23 years in the Congress. I've actually been participating and getting things done for the American people every day of that 23 years. And when I say I'm going to do something, it's based upon, not promises, but actually performance.

SNOW: OK, Senator Hatch...

HATCH: Yes?

SNOW: ... that being the case, in your video you talk about the Clinton administration as basically being the most corrupt in American history. Is that your view?

HATCH: I say it's perhaps the most deceitful and corrupt in American history, and it is my view.

SNOW: Well, perhaps being you have doubts about this?

HATCH: No. There are other corrupt administrations, I just want to give others a chance to make their choice, but my choice is this one. This administration has literally done things that are criminal, that are violative of the law, that have undermined morality and decency in this country...

SNOW: Well, Senator, that--again, that being the case. A lot of people say that you're out promising that you're able to get things done and yet, I can't think of anybody that you've said, We got to get rid of. You won't get rid of the attorney general, you haven't gone after anybody else in the administration.

How are you going to deliver if, as chairman of the Judiciary Committee, you aren't calling people to account in what you yourself say is perhaps the most corrupt administration in history?

HATCH: We have called people to account. Janet Reno isn't going to leave no matter who threatens her, so you'd be feckless to even try. This administration just blatantly lies and gets away with it. And part of it is the media, too. You know, you can't just blame members of Congress.

I can't rise up and just say, Get out of office. All I can do is point out the corruption, which we've done continuously. I voted for conviction on impeachment after giving this president every chance. And of course, I think we've held definitive hearings all the way down the line.

HATCH: And I hate to tell you this, but I don't think the media is doing their job either, other than saying this is only a two-man race in the Republican Party. It is a lot more than that, let me tell you. And the people haven't spoken yet.

HUME: Why did you not compare yourself to the rest of the field in which you're running in that 28-minute commercial?

HATCH: Well, I did. At the end I said basically ...

HUME: Yes, but you spent all that--I know, but the whole thing was about you and the Clinton administration.

HATCH: Don't you think it's time that somebody speaks substantially on what's going on rather than 30-second spots and signs and hoopla and B.S., really that's what we've been getting during this campaign. And frankly--look, the Jones-Shorenstein poll of the Kennedy School of Government said a month ago that 64 percent of the American people hadn't even decided on who they want for president. George Bush was supported by 16 per cent, everybody else ...

SNOW: OK.

HATCH: Now wait, wait--but a month later, here that percentage has gone up from 64 percent to 74 percent and Bush has slipped from 16 percent to 13 percent. You know, I think it's time for people to wake up and realize that the people out there are not happy.

SNOW: All right. We've got that and we're glad we have you here, by the way; if it were a two-man race we wouldn't even have this segment. I want to ask each of you a very simple question. I'll start with you, Gary Bauer, what do you have that the other guys don't have?

BAUER: Well, first of all, I'm glad you asked the question because I'm growing a little weary of my friend Orrin Hatch saying he's the only one with experience. I worked for eight years for Ronald Reagan. I was his undersecretary of education; I managed a $17 billion budget; I was his domestic policy adviser at the White House. So I think I'm the Reagan Republican in the race.

But I think the thing that sets me apart from virtually all the other candidates, certainly Senator Hatch, Governor Bush, Senator McCain and Steve Forbes, is that I have a policy on China that is serious. We've given China most favored nation status 10 years in a row; they've given us the back of their hand. I'll repeal most favored nation status. I'll take steps to make sure the Panama Canal is safe.

And the other issue that sets me apart is that I have a 25-year record on the sanctity of life. I'm not a Johnny-come-lately like Mr. Forbes. My record's clear. My judges will be pro-life; my running- mate will be pro-life.

And the reason I'm mentioning these two things, guys, is that I don't think my party can get the White House back unless we offer a confident, clear vision on these issues that distinguish us from Al Gore and that's what I'm willing to do.

SNOW: Alan Keyes, you have spoken eloquently about race. Is it your fear the Republican establishment is racist?

KEYES: No. I'm going to answer the question you just put, which you were supposed to put to us all, and that question has to do--and that question has to do with--you know, in this field of candidates, I think people who watch those debates have already decided who is outstanding. And in every measure objectively out there, whether it's the after polls taken on the Internet, the talk radio programs, anywhere you touch the grassroots, people said the same thing. And they did it continuously after every single debate. And I think that that answers the question as to who is outstanding. George W. Bush is not and so forth.

And why are they responding? It's not because of some rhetorical trick or oratorical ability. It's because most Americans, I believe, share my heart, that we are in the midst of the greatest morale crisis this nation has ever faced and we must address that crisis as our top priority. Issues that reflect that crisis, like abortion, like what's happening with the homosexual agenda, like what's happening with our families, those issues have to be addressed as a top priority by people who can actually help America to understand and articulate the relevance of that moral crisis to the great issues that we face in every area of our politics.

SNOW: OK ...

KEYES: That's what I've done during the debates and that's what I believe people have been responding to positively and overwhelmingly around the country.

SNOW: Mr. Keyes, I want to go to Senator Hatch and let him get in the final word. Thirty seconds, Senator Hatch.

HATCH: Well, I think Gary and Alan are very good people. I do agree that Gary has experience in the Department of Education, but I have experience in almost every aspect of government. I've been there. I've done it. I can do more as president. And I know one thing, I'm worried about beating Al Gore and Bill Bradley--I can do it. I know I can do it.

SNOW: OK, gentlemen, I want to thank you for joining us. When we come back, we'll talk about Cuba's most famous son.