Debate
Republican Presidential Debate
January 10, 2000Grand Rapids, Michigan
[Excerpt]
KEYES: Actually I don't think it's a free speech issue in this case. It's an issue of public decency. And anyplace you let our children into ought to be subject to standards of public decency that make it clear that they are not going to be polluted with garbage. Don't use the First Amendment. That's some excuse to destroy our children's lives and souls.
It doesn't have to be, because obviously you set up a straw man-be easy as pie, wouldn't it, to put a few computers off in a room you don't let children in and let adults have access to them. You can solve the problems if you want to. The libraries right now are egregiously ignoring their responsibility to our kids, trying to claim free speech rights.
I've got to tell you something. My kids don't have the right to free speech and they don't need to have it until they grow older.
(APPLAUSE)
Second-but I'd also like to address quickly this tax question.
(LAUGHTER)
Wait a minute. No, listen now. This is a phony issue. You stand here listening to these folks being the gatekeepers of your money, telling you how much they're going to let you keep, and you don't feel humiliated-and you ought to. The problem is not the tax rate and it's not funny.
KEYES: We have given away control of our money. We have sacrificed one of the key elements of our liberty, and it will stay sacrificed as long as we have any form of income tax at the federal level. It should be abolished.
. . .
KEYES: Well, I think, first of all, the courts and the rest of us should certainly be involved in this. If somebody has come seeking sanctuary and freedom in America, I think whether we like it or not the heart of the American people is going to be with somebody who is seeking the freedom and opportunity we have in this country, coming out of the shadow of one of the worst tyrannies on the face of the earth.
KEYES: But as I've always said, I think we have to address this issue not as if it's just some political football, we're talking about human beings, we're talking about a young boy, we're talking about a father. And I think we have to respect that father's will and that father's heart if we can determine what it is.
But the problem here, of course, is if you're living under the shadow of tyranny, how do I know that what you're saying today is actually what you really mean? Not what you're being forced to say by one of the worst tyrants that has ever existed on the face of the earth.
And that's why I said the other day what I say now: I think that boy should stay in freedom until his father can make an assured decision in freedom. When we are sure of that, then I think it is our obligation to respect those family ties.
But I'll tell you something. I would be willing-I'm not a betting man, but I'm willing to wager that if Castro lets him out, he's not going to be too-altogether too anxious to go back. And that way the whole family can stay in freedom in America.
. . .
KEYES: You know, I think that one of the things that I'm hearing in this discussion, and it's the premise of your question, I guess, which is typical, is that the way you measure compassion is by how much money we're going to throw at some problem, regardless of whether the problem is susceptible to being dealt with with all the money.
After all, asking whether we should spend $300 million to cure an incurable disease is kind of an academic point, and you should realize that. Especially when the spread of that disease is rooted in what? Is rooted in a moral crises. Is rooted in a pattern of behavior that spreads that death because of a kind of licentiousness. Not only in Africa, but right here in our own country and around the world.
I think that this whole discussion is based on a premise that reveals the corruption of our thought. Money cannot solve every problem. Sometimes we need to look at the moral root of that problem and have the guts to deal with it.
. . .
KEYES: Well, I'd have a comment for Governor Bush. I like you, George, but I...
KEYES: And since...
(LAUGHTER)
... since it's a proven family tradition, I will consider you for my vice president.
KEYES: But I have a question for Gary Bauer, actually. Gary, the other day I asked-I asked Senator McCain about this whole business of the "don't ask, don't tell" Clinton policy. And Senator McCain supports that policy. He's given us Clinton-lite on gays in the military and wants us to continue with a policy that undermines the sense of honor in the military; that gives the false message to people that they can lead a lifestyle that is actually against the regulations; and then puts the people who are supposed to enforce that regulation in a position where they're going to encounter resentment, misunderstanding, and confusion when they move to enforce it on the basis of whatever information they have.
I think that that sows tremendous seeds of difficulty in our military ranks and it leads to disaster that is felt throughout the ranks. I don't care about the political generals, but I know the people below that level are suffering now in their morale because of this and the seeds of distrust that it sows. Will you join me in my pledge, if I become president, to return to a ban on gays in the military and get rid of this policy that undermines the honor and morale of our military people?
. . .
KEYES: Well, I can tell you-I think I know why the media wants to get people off this stage because they claim the power to decide who's going to be on it, you see. And they would take that power from the American people and, gosh, that would give them rule of this country instead of the people.
How many of you want government of the media, by the media, for the media?
(LAUGHTER)
I don't think so. I think if they want to have part in our government, they should stand up, declare, run for office, get in here and sweat in the arena with the rest of us. Don't stand on your high horse collecting your fat salaries, dictating to the American people what their choices will be.
(APPLAUSE)
And I say that-I say that, by the way-I say that, by the way, as one who was a victim of that media tyranny in Atlanta in the last go round, when a tyrannical television station kept me off the stage.
And I think there are a lot of folks in this country now who realize that I-I think after all is said and done once you've proven it-and I kind of think I've proven I have a right to be here. Every now and again I say something worth hearing.
. . .
KEYES: Final point. I can't resist just one moment of rebuttal. I think that-when we here Senator McCain telling us that the military has all these problems, people leaving and so forth. It seems like he has forgotten that the root of the word morale is moral. And that we'd better pay attention to the moral environment we create in our military or you can bet, people will keep leaving.
. . .
KEYES: I think when we get beyond the, kind of, cheap ploys, we ought to consider the fact that, in a court of law, if the prosecution presents its case and the defense doesn't bother, you don't get to the truth. Some people want to pretend that we don't have an adversarial political system, but we do. And therefore if the folks who are running against each other don't, in an honest, clear way, speak about the differences on issues, and if you're going to run on your record, they get to speak about your record.
And it's going to be their interpretation of your record, not your own. That is not negative advertising. That is sharing with people your views and the truth, and they're not going to get at it any other way.
And so if we're honest with ourselves, we not only have to tolerate it, we should encourage that kind of exchange of viewpoints so that the voters get the maximum information on which to base their decisions.
. . .
KEYES: Can I...
(APPLAUSE)
Now wait a minute, you don't have to. Excuse me.
Two things...
KEYES: First of all, you don't have to put words in Jesus' mouth because, if we study his example, we know how Jesus responded to the death penalty.
When Pontius Pilate stood before Jesus and said, Don't you know that I have the authority to put you to death? What did Jesus say? He didn't say, No you don't; I'm an innocent man. He could have. He was the most innocent who had ever lived, in my faith.
What did he say instead? He basically said that, Any authority you have, he says, comes to you from the Father.
KEYES: He did not deny the authority, he simply sourced it. I think we'd better think about that when we ask the question, "What would Jesus do?"
And we also need to think about this. The question of God in American life is not a question of my personal feeling or George Bush's personal feeling, it's a simple fact that, in our great Declaration, we are told that our rights come from the creator, God. How on Earth are we to maintain institutions sourced in that authority if we deny that authority?
. . .
KEYES: I think the best thing that we can do there-and actually it gets back to another point made earlier-we need to encourage marriage. We need to encourage respect for people who are willing to take on their parental responsibilities. And we need to write into our policies and laws approaches that will work with folks who respect the marriage institution and oppose those who want to destroy institutions of marriage by encouraging the radical gay agenda and other things.
It also shocked me a little bit when Gary said he didn't care about the feelings of the father in the Elian Gonzalez case. What are we going to do, my friends, if we don't start telling fathers that we care about their hearts and that we care about their feelings and that they do have a permanent role in the lives of their children? How are we to get them to meet their responsibilities? I have to take that seriously. And I think when we start doing those things, we will move in the right direction in terms of making sure that marriage is strong and that children are born to two parents who stay together.
. . .
KEYES: Now, every now and again something occurs in the campaign that drives home the point that we're not just talking about abstractions. The other day I got a call from a father named Thomas Navarro (ph), who's the father of a 4-year-old son who is dying of brain cancer. And he has been trying, in a very responsible way, to get a decent treatment for his son's brain cancer, and the FDA has refused to allow him to do what he thinks is best for his son, and they've placed the whole matter on clinical hold while his son dies.
I've written a letter to Donna Shalala, the key to which is the statement, "It should be the right of every responsible American citizen to seek the medical care of their choice without government bureaucracies standing in the way."
I think this case illustrates the heart and soul of Republicanism and of the right American approach.
KEYES: Responsible people should be allowed to make responsible choices. They should not have the government standing in the way.
I want to appeal to my colleagues to join with me in signing this letter to Donna Shalala, to see if we can help this family and this young man, and as a way of illustrating the fact that, for Republicans, this isn't just a debate over abstractions. It's a debate about how we can restore to the American people those liberties and that sense of responsibility which will not only save the life of this child, but save the life and the future of our country.
. . .
It doesn't have to be, because obviously you set up a straw man-be easy as pie, wouldn't it, to put a few computers off in a room you don't let children in and let adults have access to them. You can solve the problems if you want to. The libraries right now are egregiously ignoring their responsibility to our kids, trying to claim free speech rights.
I've got to tell you something. My kids don't have the right to free speech and they don't need to have it until they grow older.
(APPLAUSE)
Second-but I'd also like to address quickly this tax question.
(LAUGHTER)
Wait a minute. No, listen now. This is a phony issue. You stand here listening to these folks being the gatekeepers of your money, telling you how much they're going to let you keep, and you don't feel humiliated-and you ought to. The problem is not the tax rate and it's not funny.
KEYES: We have given away control of our money. We have sacrificed one of the key elements of our liberty, and it will stay sacrificed as long as we have any form of income tax at the federal level. It should be abolished.
. . .
KEYES: Well, I think, first of all, the courts and the rest of us should certainly be involved in this. If somebody has come seeking sanctuary and freedom in America, I think whether we like it or not the heart of the American people is going to be with somebody who is seeking the freedom and opportunity we have in this country, coming out of the shadow of one of the worst tyrannies on the face of the earth.
KEYES: But as I've always said, I think we have to address this issue not as if it's just some political football, we're talking about human beings, we're talking about a young boy, we're talking about a father. And I think we have to respect that father's will and that father's heart if we can determine what it is.
But the problem here, of course, is if you're living under the shadow of tyranny, how do I know that what you're saying today is actually what you really mean? Not what you're being forced to say by one of the worst tyrants that has ever existed on the face of the earth.
And that's why I said the other day what I say now: I think that boy should stay in freedom until his father can make an assured decision in freedom. When we are sure of that, then I think it is our obligation to respect those family ties.
But I'll tell you something. I would be willing-I'm not a betting man, but I'm willing to wager that if Castro lets him out, he's not going to be too-altogether too anxious to go back. And that way the whole family can stay in freedom in America.
. . .
KEYES: You know, I think that one of the things that I'm hearing in this discussion, and it's the premise of your question, I guess, which is typical, is that the way you measure compassion is by how much money we're going to throw at some problem, regardless of whether the problem is susceptible to being dealt with with all the money.
After all, asking whether we should spend $300 million to cure an incurable disease is kind of an academic point, and you should realize that. Especially when the spread of that disease is rooted in what? Is rooted in a moral crises. Is rooted in a pattern of behavior that spreads that death because of a kind of licentiousness. Not only in Africa, but right here in our own country and around the world.
I think that this whole discussion is based on a premise that reveals the corruption of our thought. Money cannot solve every problem. Sometimes we need to look at the moral root of that problem and have the guts to deal with it.
. . .
KEYES: Well, I'd have a comment for Governor Bush. I like you, George, but I...
KEYES: And since...
(LAUGHTER)
... since it's a proven family tradition, I will consider you for my vice president.
KEYES: But I have a question for Gary Bauer, actually. Gary, the other day I asked-I asked Senator McCain about this whole business of the "don't ask, don't tell" Clinton policy. And Senator McCain supports that policy. He's given us Clinton-lite on gays in the military and wants us to continue with a policy that undermines the sense of honor in the military; that gives the false message to people that they can lead a lifestyle that is actually against the regulations; and then puts the people who are supposed to enforce that regulation in a position where they're going to encounter resentment, misunderstanding, and confusion when they move to enforce it on the basis of whatever information they have.
I think that that sows tremendous seeds of difficulty in our military ranks and it leads to disaster that is felt throughout the ranks. I don't care about the political generals, but I know the people below that level are suffering now in their morale because of this and the seeds of distrust that it sows. Will you join me in my pledge, if I become president, to return to a ban on gays in the military and get rid of this policy that undermines the honor and morale of our military people?
. . .
KEYES: Well, I can tell you-I think I know why the media wants to get people off this stage because they claim the power to decide who's going to be on it, you see. And they would take that power from the American people and, gosh, that would give them rule of this country instead of the people.
How many of you want government of the media, by the media, for the media?
(LAUGHTER)
I don't think so. I think if they want to have part in our government, they should stand up, declare, run for office, get in here and sweat in the arena with the rest of us. Don't stand on your high horse collecting your fat salaries, dictating to the American people what their choices will be.
(APPLAUSE)
And I say that-I say that, by the way-I say that, by the way, as one who was a victim of that media tyranny in Atlanta in the last go round, when a tyrannical television station kept me off the stage.
And I think there are a lot of folks in this country now who realize that I-I think after all is said and done once you've proven it-and I kind of think I've proven I have a right to be here. Every now and again I say something worth hearing.
. . .
KEYES: Final point. I can't resist just one moment of rebuttal. I think that-when we here Senator McCain telling us that the military has all these problems, people leaving and so forth. It seems like he has forgotten that the root of the word morale is moral. And that we'd better pay attention to the moral environment we create in our military or you can bet, people will keep leaving.
. . .
KEYES: I think when we get beyond the, kind of, cheap ploys, we ought to consider the fact that, in a court of law, if the prosecution presents its case and the defense doesn't bother, you don't get to the truth. Some people want to pretend that we don't have an adversarial political system, but we do. And therefore if the folks who are running against each other don't, in an honest, clear way, speak about the differences on issues, and if you're going to run on your record, they get to speak about your record.
And it's going to be their interpretation of your record, not your own. That is not negative advertising. That is sharing with people your views and the truth, and they're not going to get at it any other way.
And so if we're honest with ourselves, we not only have to tolerate it, we should encourage that kind of exchange of viewpoints so that the voters get the maximum information on which to base their decisions.
. . .
KEYES: Can I...
(APPLAUSE)
Now wait a minute, you don't have to. Excuse me.
Two things...
KEYES: First of all, you don't have to put words in Jesus' mouth because, if we study his example, we know how Jesus responded to the death penalty.
When Pontius Pilate stood before Jesus and said, Don't you know that I have the authority to put you to death? What did Jesus say? He didn't say, No you don't; I'm an innocent man. He could have. He was the most innocent who had ever lived, in my faith.
What did he say instead? He basically said that, Any authority you have, he says, comes to you from the Father.
KEYES: He did not deny the authority, he simply sourced it. I think we'd better think about that when we ask the question, "What would Jesus do?"
And we also need to think about this. The question of God in American life is not a question of my personal feeling or George Bush's personal feeling, it's a simple fact that, in our great Declaration, we are told that our rights come from the creator, God. How on Earth are we to maintain institutions sourced in that authority if we deny that authority?
. . .
KEYES: I think the best thing that we can do there-and actually it gets back to another point made earlier-we need to encourage marriage. We need to encourage respect for people who are willing to take on their parental responsibilities. And we need to write into our policies and laws approaches that will work with folks who respect the marriage institution and oppose those who want to destroy institutions of marriage by encouraging the radical gay agenda and other things.
It also shocked me a little bit when Gary said he didn't care about the feelings of the father in the Elian Gonzalez case. What are we going to do, my friends, if we don't start telling fathers that we care about their hearts and that we care about their feelings and that they do have a permanent role in the lives of their children? How are we to get them to meet their responsibilities? I have to take that seriously. And I think when we start doing those things, we will move in the right direction in terms of making sure that marriage is strong and that children are born to two parents who stay together.
. . .
KEYES: Now, every now and again something occurs in the campaign that drives home the point that we're not just talking about abstractions. The other day I got a call from a father named Thomas Navarro (ph), who's the father of a 4-year-old son who is dying of brain cancer. And he has been trying, in a very responsible way, to get a decent treatment for his son's brain cancer, and the FDA has refused to allow him to do what he thinks is best for his son, and they've placed the whole matter on clinical hold while his son dies.
I've written a letter to Donna Shalala, the key to which is the statement, "It should be the right of every responsible American citizen to seek the medical care of their choice without government bureaucracies standing in the way."
I think this case illustrates the heart and soul of Republicanism and of the right American approach.
KEYES: Responsible people should be allowed to make responsible choices. They should not have the government standing in the way.
I want to appeal to my colleagues to join with me in signing this letter to Donna Shalala, to see if we can help this family and this young man, and as a way of illustrating the fact that, for Republicans, this isn't just a debate over abstractions. It's a debate about how we can restore to the American people those liberties and that sense of responsibility which will not only save the life of this child, but save the life and the future of our country.
. . .