TV interview
Alan Keyes on Hannity and Colmes
December 13, 1999Post-debate special coverage
Colmes: You started to say, you've said in the past that the media has been racist in the way that they have dealt with you. What have you felt tonight, because you got asked a variety of questions on various topics. Was that still the case tonight or do you feel that the media has woken up, gotten your message and is treating you more on a par with other candidates?
Keyes: Well, I've got to confess, I think the people around the country have awakened and they've been sort of hammering on some folks in the media and it may be making some change. And I hope so because I think it's not just about me. It's just about making sure that we have a system that's going to be based on letting the American people hear fairly from everyone, rather than filtering anybody out for reasons of stereotypes or prior judgements and things of that kind. That's all I'm asking for, and yes, I thought the debate formats we've had have been good. I think I've tried my best to present my views in that context and I've had a good opportunity to do so. And I appreciate that opportunity as all Americans should.
Colmes: Everybody says after these debates that Alan Keyes did the best. Have you seen a bump in the polls that reflect that, or does one not have anything to do with the other?
Keyes: Well I don't know. We don't look at polls, because I know folks are trying to act as if they mean something. I think they do not. And I actually believe that taking them seriously is dangerous to the integrity of our electoral system. Because it conditions expectations on the basis of something that could easily be manipulated to deceive us and I think that's a bad idea.
Colmes: You said over the weekend on one of the Sunday morning chat shows that G.W. Bush should not get the nomination, that he lacks the moral courage to attack issues like abortion and you say his stance isn't strong enough. He is clearly pro-life, you know clearly where he stands, he's got a record as Governor of Texas. I'm certainly not defending George W. Bush but is there any doubt where he stands on the issue of abortion?
Keyes: As I've often said to people, a stand like that is not good enough. We are faced with a crisis that requires a leader capable of articulating the moral principles of the country, applying them to the challenges before us in a way that shapes the conscience, moves the heart and shows guidance and leadership for the American people. That's what we need now. We don't need someone who has been able to follow somebody else's lead adequately over the course of his political career. We need a leader.
Hannity: Alan, on that issue, in a Keyes administration, every cabinet member would be pro-life.
Keyes: I would make sure that all people were pro-life in positions that would have any effect on the issues that are to be judged according to pro-life principles, absolutely. And I would make sure that general positions of leadership like the Vice Presidency, were in the hands of those who were pro-life because I think that's vital to the country.
Hannity: The issue of the Philosopher that Bush admired the most, he said Jesus Christ, and in the last hour we were on 9-10 eastern, Alan and some others were taking issue, was that exclusionary and making something of it. What did you think of that answer?
Keyes: Well I had a problem with it for other reasons. When somebody says philosopher to me, I find it hard to put Jesus Christ in that box because Jesus Christ is my God and Savior. He's not a philosopher. The word philosopher means somebody who loves wisdom. Jesus Christ is Wisdom. The word philosopher means somebody who seeks truth, Jesus Christ is Truth. I don't even put Christ in the same category as Plato and Aristotle and these other-
Hannity: I think what he was saying is I don't follow the philosophy of men, I follow the philosophy of my Savior. That was my interpretation of it but yet some have taken issue-
Keyes: Maybe I know too much about philosophy, that's an abuse of the word philosophy. What God tells us is not a philosophy, it is the truth.
Hannity: Well, okay, fair enough. But maybe you would say, when you have that philosophy, or that understanding or that wisdom or insight then you don't need the philosophy of men?
Keyes: Well you judge the philosophy of men in light of that. You judge the philosophy of men in light of the truth and God is the ultimate authority of that.
Hannity: Ambassador, we've had you on after the prior two debates and we've asked you to assess the so-called front runner George W. Bush. You've been very critical of both of his performances. We'll give you a third opportunity, what did you think of his performance tonight?
Keyes: Well, I think we're still dealing with a lot of the same problem. I think George W. Bush seems to me to be a very nice person. But on a lot of these he issues he simply isn't somebody showing the kind of outstanding ability to represent the views of the Republican party that we need for this country's future. And right now, I think that we don't need somebody who is adequate, and doesn't fall on his face in the debate and stuff. We need a leader, and I do not see that leadership in his articulation of these issues.
Hannity: Let me ask you this question about Bush in this context. A guy that has a 450 billion dollar tax cut plan, I know you support a consumption tax, an idea that I find very intriguing, eliminating the IRS, I know your plan on that. But he has this plan vs. Bradley and Gore who will not pledge that they won't raise taxes, that are trying to out liberal each other with nationalized health care, and prescription drug plans and on and on and on and I'm looking at the way he's campaigning to the way Hillary's campaigning and Al Gore's absurd positions and I'm saying-
Keyes: Not good enough.
Hannity: Not good enough for you. Better than Gore/Bradley but not good enough
Keyes: Shawn, Shawn, I'm sorry, the Republicans are going to get their clocks cleaned if they stand before the American people and dare to say that we are going to send you something less than our best because that's what the Democrats do.
Hannity: You're saying here tonight that Gore/Bradly would beat Bush.
Keyes: That's not it. What we need, my friend, is what is best for America not what is second best because of whoever we might be opposed to having out there as an opponent.
Hannity: When you say if we don't put out our best before the American people, are you saying George W. loses to Gore/Bradley?
Keyes: Oh, I've said it quite openly. G. W. Bush will not only lose, but he will lead the Republican Party to a bath in November. In America right now we do not have an economic crisis, an international crisis; we need somebody who can get out there and drive home the point that the moral crisis that the Democrats have aggravated with their lying and corruption and support of this conscienceless President, is in fact the issue on which the election should turn. G.W. Bush can not and will not fight that battle.
Colmes: Dr. Keyes, would John McCain have the same fate? Would he lose, do you think, to Gore and/or Bradley.
Keyes: I frankly think that McCain has little understanding on these same issues. I was watching the other day somebody asked him a question about his favorite rock group and he named a group called "Nine Inch Nails" which happens to be a group with the songs filled with filthy lyrics and other stuff like this. And when he was called on it by his questioner, he acted like it was a big joke. The moral crisis of this country, the swill that is undermining the conscience and integrity of our young people is not a joke. It is not some kind of political throw away issue. It is the major challenge we face and if people don't understand it, they're not adequate.
Colmes: What is your favorite rock group by the way?
Keyes: I don't know, I like a lot of groups. But I think in terms of that kind of contemporary music, I like contemporary Christian music. Point of Grace is a great group. I think we can have people like that who have great music, and wholesome music that uplifts the hearts of our young people.
Colmes: You know the Osmonds are pretty good, Amy Grant pretty good- huh?
Keyes: She's pretty good.
Colmes: Alright, maybe we like some of the same music Alan, you know what I mean? Look, the problem is that most people think the economy is sound, people want to save Social Security, they want to know that they have health care, they aren't looking to a candidate, I know you passionately believe what you believe, you've got a lot of integrity, I know you stand ardently for these things, but the American people are not looking for a politician to be elected to be our moral leader and tell us what our morals should be- and that's been shown time and time again.
Keyes: Alan, I think your totally wrong. What's been shown by our history is that in every major crisis of this nation's life and in every major advance we have made as a people, our leaders have been moral leaders who have articulated the relevance of the moral principles that define our identity to the challenges we face in our lives. And that's what we need for America.
Keyes: Well, I've got to confess, I think the people around the country have awakened and they've been sort of hammering on some folks in the media and it may be making some change. And I hope so because I think it's not just about me. It's just about making sure that we have a system that's going to be based on letting the American people hear fairly from everyone, rather than filtering anybody out for reasons of stereotypes or prior judgements and things of that kind. That's all I'm asking for, and yes, I thought the debate formats we've had have been good. I think I've tried my best to present my views in that context and I've had a good opportunity to do so. And I appreciate that opportunity as all Americans should.
Colmes: Everybody says after these debates that Alan Keyes did the best. Have you seen a bump in the polls that reflect that, or does one not have anything to do with the other?
Keyes: Well I don't know. We don't look at polls, because I know folks are trying to act as if they mean something. I think they do not. And I actually believe that taking them seriously is dangerous to the integrity of our electoral system. Because it conditions expectations on the basis of something that could easily be manipulated to deceive us and I think that's a bad idea.
Colmes: You said over the weekend on one of the Sunday morning chat shows that G.W. Bush should not get the nomination, that he lacks the moral courage to attack issues like abortion and you say his stance isn't strong enough. He is clearly pro-life, you know clearly where he stands, he's got a record as Governor of Texas. I'm certainly not defending George W. Bush but is there any doubt where he stands on the issue of abortion?
Keyes: As I've often said to people, a stand like that is not good enough. We are faced with a crisis that requires a leader capable of articulating the moral principles of the country, applying them to the challenges before us in a way that shapes the conscience, moves the heart and shows guidance and leadership for the American people. That's what we need now. We don't need someone who has been able to follow somebody else's lead adequately over the course of his political career. We need a leader.
Hannity: Alan, on that issue, in a Keyes administration, every cabinet member would be pro-life.
Keyes: I would make sure that all people were pro-life in positions that would have any effect on the issues that are to be judged according to pro-life principles, absolutely. And I would make sure that general positions of leadership like the Vice Presidency, were in the hands of those who were pro-life because I think that's vital to the country.
Hannity: The issue of the Philosopher that Bush admired the most, he said Jesus Christ, and in the last hour we were on 9-10 eastern, Alan and some others were taking issue, was that exclusionary and making something of it. What did you think of that answer?
Keyes: Well I had a problem with it for other reasons. When somebody says philosopher to me, I find it hard to put Jesus Christ in that box because Jesus Christ is my God and Savior. He's not a philosopher. The word philosopher means somebody who loves wisdom. Jesus Christ is Wisdom. The word philosopher means somebody who seeks truth, Jesus Christ is Truth. I don't even put Christ in the same category as Plato and Aristotle and these other-
Hannity: I think what he was saying is I don't follow the philosophy of men, I follow the philosophy of my Savior. That was my interpretation of it but yet some have taken issue-
Keyes: Maybe I know too much about philosophy, that's an abuse of the word philosophy. What God tells us is not a philosophy, it is the truth.
Hannity: Well, okay, fair enough. But maybe you would say, when you have that philosophy, or that understanding or that wisdom or insight then you don't need the philosophy of men?
Keyes: Well you judge the philosophy of men in light of that. You judge the philosophy of men in light of the truth and God is the ultimate authority of that.
Hannity: Ambassador, we've had you on after the prior two debates and we've asked you to assess the so-called front runner George W. Bush. You've been very critical of both of his performances. We'll give you a third opportunity, what did you think of his performance tonight?
Keyes: Well, I think we're still dealing with a lot of the same problem. I think George W. Bush seems to me to be a very nice person. But on a lot of these he issues he simply isn't somebody showing the kind of outstanding ability to represent the views of the Republican party that we need for this country's future. And right now, I think that we don't need somebody who is adequate, and doesn't fall on his face in the debate and stuff. We need a leader, and I do not see that leadership in his articulation of these issues.
Hannity: Let me ask you this question about Bush in this context. A guy that has a 450 billion dollar tax cut plan, I know you support a consumption tax, an idea that I find very intriguing, eliminating the IRS, I know your plan on that. But he has this plan vs. Bradley and Gore who will not pledge that they won't raise taxes, that are trying to out liberal each other with nationalized health care, and prescription drug plans and on and on and on and I'm looking at the way he's campaigning to the way Hillary's campaigning and Al Gore's absurd positions and I'm saying-
Keyes: Not good enough.
Hannity: Not good enough for you. Better than Gore/Bradley but not good enough
Keyes: Shawn, Shawn, I'm sorry, the Republicans are going to get their clocks cleaned if they stand before the American people and dare to say that we are going to send you something less than our best because that's what the Democrats do.
Hannity: You're saying here tonight that Gore/Bradly would beat Bush.
Keyes: That's not it. What we need, my friend, is what is best for America not what is second best because of whoever we might be opposed to having out there as an opponent.
Hannity: When you say if we don't put out our best before the American people, are you saying George W. loses to Gore/Bradley?
Keyes: Oh, I've said it quite openly. G. W. Bush will not only lose, but he will lead the Republican Party to a bath in November. In America right now we do not have an economic crisis, an international crisis; we need somebody who can get out there and drive home the point that the moral crisis that the Democrats have aggravated with their lying and corruption and support of this conscienceless President, is in fact the issue on which the election should turn. G.W. Bush can not and will not fight that battle.
Colmes: Dr. Keyes, would John McCain have the same fate? Would he lose, do you think, to Gore and/or Bradley.
Keyes: I frankly think that McCain has little understanding on these same issues. I was watching the other day somebody asked him a question about his favorite rock group and he named a group called "Nine Inch Nails" which happens to be a group with the songs filled with filthy lyrics and other stuff like this. And when he was called on it by his questioner, he acted like it was a big joke. The moral crisis of this country, the swill that is undermining the conscience and integrity of our young people is not a joke. It is not some kind of political throw away issue. It is the major challenge we face and if people don't understand it, they're not adequate.
Colmes: What is your favorite rock group by the way?
Keyes: I don't know, I like a lot of groups. But I think in terms of that kind of contemporary music, I like contemporary Christian music. Point of Grace is a great group. I think we can have people like that who have great music, and wholesome music that uplifts the hearts of our young people.
Colmes: You know the Osmonds are pretty good, Amy Grant pretty good- huh?
Keyes: She's pretty good.
Colmes: Alright, maybe we like some of the same music Alan, you know what I mean? Look, the problem is that most people think the economy is sound, people want to save Social Security, they want to know that they have health care, they aren't looking to a candidate, I know you passionately believe what you believe, you've got a lot of integrity, I know you stand ardently for these things, but the American people are not looking for a politician to be elected to be our moral leader and tell us what our morals should be- and that's been shown time and time again.
Keyes: Alan, I think your totally wrong. What's been shown by our history is that in every major crisis of this nation's life and in every major advance we have made as a people, our leaders have been moral leaders who have articulated the relevance of the moral principles that define our identity to the challenges we face in our lives. And that's what we need for America.